In this episode of Executive Connect, Melissa Aarskaug sits down with Dr. Laura Sicola to talk about influence, executive presence, and why technical brilliance is only the starting point. Laura explains why smart leaders still struggle to get buy-in, how trust is built through alignment between message and delivery, and why personal brand is formed in the ordinary moments, not just the big presentations. She also breaks down her three Cs of strategic influence—command, connect, and close—and shares practical ways founders and senior leaders can communicate with more clarity, credibility, and impact.

This episode is for executives, founders, and professionals who want to move people to act, build thought leadership, and close the gap between expertise and influence. Press play before another great idea gets lost in bad delivery.

Chapters:
(0:30) Why smart people still struggle to influence
(2:18) The real cost of weak influence
(4:21) How trust is built or broken fast
(7:31) The three Cs: command, connect, close
(10:26) Why influence compounds over time
(12:31) How your brand is built when you are not trying
(16:43) Building thought leadership through service
(23:17) The founder’s messaging mistake
(28:44) What makes people actually act
(37:46) Start with the end in mind

Laura

(0:00) Start with the end in mind. (0:02) When it comes to branding on a personal level, be it for because you want to go and start a business or because you are already at the top of your game or because you’re vying for the next level of leadership, you have to really think about to be in that role, what kind of person will be most successful? (0:21) Aside from technical expertise, we already know you got that one under your belt.

(0:25) What qualities would you need to see in that leader?

Melissa

(0:30) Most people think influence comes down to what you say, but if that were true, every smart person in the room would be leading it. (0:38) The reality, influence is about how people experience you, how you show up, how you communicate and what people believe about you when you’re not trying so hard. (0:49) Today’s guest has helped leaders close the gap between expertise and influence.

(0:55) Dr. Laura Sokola has coached executives at the highest levels to commanding the room, connecting with your audience and actually move people to act. (1:05) This conversation is about public brand, not about marketing, but as leadership infrastructure. (1:12) Welcome, Dr. Laura.

Laura

(1:15) Thank you so much, Melissa. (1:16) I’m looking forward to the conversation.

Melissa

(1:18) Now you work with leaders already highly capable. (1:22) Why is technical brilliance not enough when it comes to influence? (1:26) If it were, we’d all be hearing yes a whole lot more often, wouldn’t we?

Laura

(1:30) So true. (1:31) So really the ability to know something deeply, having that expertise is great. (1:38) That’s foundational.

(1:39) But I like to say that the biggest gap in the world is the three inches between your brain and your mouth. (1:45) Everything makes sense internally, doesn’t it? (1:47) But somehow when it comes out, it’s not as crystal clear, concise, compelling to everybody else as it is to us.

(1:55) And trying to figure out how to translate that expertise so that whether you’re talking to somebody who’s in finance, in marketing, in tech, in sales, or a direct client, that they get it because they all speak different languages. (2:09) So if you can’t translate yours to fit their mindset space, then that’s where the disconnect happens. (2:16) And that’s why we don’t hear yes.

Melissa

(2:18) Yeah. (2:18) And I love that because I agree with you. (2:20) I think we would hear more yeses.

(2:22) And I think there’s a big difference between being a competent leader and having influence that actually shows up in the workplace. (2:30) And I find that highly intelligent people often struggle a lot to be heard up or down or sideways. (2:39) So talk to me a little bit about the cost of not developing influence at senior levels.

Laura

(2:47) The higher up the totem pole you go, so to speak, or the higher up the ladder you go, the more your decisions and your influence carries weight and has ripple effects because it cascades. (3:01) So when you’re making strategic, big picture decisions, the difference between a yes or a no has massive impacts as it flows down the org chart, so to speak. (3:14) It’s not just about, well, okay, I think I’ll do this today or not do this today.

(3:18) A yes or no that you get from people will change entire trajectories. (3:22) So you can’t afford to just A, be a yes man, or B, wait until you’re told what to do. (3:31) You’re there to guide.

(3:33) You’re there to lead. (3:35) And it’s going to have both top and bottom line impact on the finances, the stability, the success of the company, whether or not you’re in a revenue generating role, your decisions matter and they impact everyone.

Melissa

(3:47) Yeah. (3:48) And I love that because I think, you know, I see a lot lately about trust and trust in the workplace and culture. (3:55) And I want to get, you know, your insight on what signals cause people to trust or dismiss somebody so quickly.

(4:05) Ready to lead smarter and invest wiser? (4:08) On the Executive Connect podcast, we unpack executive strategies for wealth and influence. (4:15) Hit the subscribe button now.

(4:18) Don’t just watch, act. (4:19) Yes.

Laura

(4:21) The key is alignment or congruence. (4:25) So we talked a little bit a moment ago about the difference between what you say and the content of your message versus how you’re received, how you’re perceived. (4:38) And there’s a myth out there, quote unquote, it’s not what you say, it’s how you say it that matters.

(4:44) Oh no, they both matter massively. (4:46) Think about if you’re house, you need a foundation and you need the walls and the roof. (4:52) You can’t just have one or the other.

(4:53) Well, the words are the foundation of your house. (4:57) Then you’re going to build on top of it and the walls can then make it livable or not livable. (5:03) So a good message, yes, is essential to craft clearly, concisely, use metaphors, don’t use too much jargon.

(5:14) You know, it needs to be comprehensible at the level of the listener, but then you also need to adjust the delivery so that it’s received well. (5:24) So things like diplomacy, which starts with the words, choosing, if you have to give critical feedback to somebody on whatever level, you can have good words that are acknowledging effort, that are recognizing what was effective and saying what other adjustments we need to make. (5:47) But the way that you deliver it, if it’s like, yeah, I mean, that’s good, (5:50) but we can’t move forward unless we’re doing these kinds of things or that’s not, there’s a (5:55) harshness to your tone, there’s a bluntness, there’s a dismissiveness to your facial expressions (6:01) and your eye rolls and whatever else comes along with it that take away the connectivity, that take (6:09) away the trust and the connection with people, make people feel judged, et cetera. (6:16) So the delivery can totally undermine that connection. (6:22) And separately, you can say it very nicely, but if I say, you know, I looked at the proposal and it seems kind of stupid, you know, no offense.

(6:31) I mean, it’s nothing personal, but I’m sorry, you just called my work stupid. (6:34) I don’t care that you said it smiling and nicely, that was offensive. (6:38) You know, it’s, so no, it’s not just what you say, how you say it matters too.

(6:44) So when you’re in alignment, that’s where credibility starts. (6:48) But when cues are off, that when the words and the delivery don’t match up, that’s where something in the gut of the listener goes, I’m sorry, wait, what? (7:00) No, I’m not buying this back up the truck.

(7:02) We got some work to do.

Melissa

(7:04) Yeah. (7:05) And I agree. (7:06) I think there’s so much to body language, the same sentence with body language can be taken so much differently, even if we’re chipper or not chipper.

(7:18) I think people read the body language and people can tell pretty quickly if they can trust someone, if they’re knowledgeable, if they’re not knowledgeable and a smile doesn’t always often make people trust people. (7:29) It’s sometimes the words too. (7:30) And I love that.

(7:31) And so I know you talk about the three C’s about three C’s of strategic influence, command, connect, and close. (7:38) Can you break those down for us and give some real world leadership context?

Laura

(7:44) Absolutely. (7:45) And those three C’s are for me under the umbrella of executive presence and that X factor that it factor that a lot of people can are told that they need to improve, but don’t know how to operationalize, much less how to fix. (8:00) So it is for me, those three C’s, the ability to command the room, connect with the audience and close the deal.

(8:07) So if we break those down real quick, the connect, excuse me, command the room is about your, from the minute you walk in or click join meeting as is more the case nowadays, even before you start to speak, is there something in the way you carry yourself? (8:22) Is there something in your facial expression in the way that you attend? (8:24) Is there something in how you show up that just makes people sit up, take notice and lean in out of curiosity, wanting to hear more?

(8:34) Connecting with the audience means no matter what your role and background, no matter what my space and objective is, how different we are on every other level, there’s at least one point in which we’re going to find a common ground that says, you understand me and I understand you. (8:51) And on that note, we’re going to move forward together. (8:55) And then closing the deal is not just a sales reference.

(8:58) It means to move the needle forward, form an agreement. (9:03) It means coming up with an answer, sometimes a decision of some sort. (9:08) There’s, I don’t know about your businesses.

(9:10) I’m sure many of the leaders that you’re, who are out there listening to us. (9:13) Yes, there are some conversations where it’s a one and done, but more often than not, it’s a conversation that’s like part 326 out of 1,482. (9:24) It’s an ongoing process and it’s never truly done, or at least it feels like it’s never truly done.

(9:30) So how do you make sure that there’s always progress being made? (9:35) That’s closing the deal.

Melissa

(9:38) Yeah. (9:38) And I love that. (9:39) I think that’s really key making the progress.

(9:42) And I’ve, you know, we’re in a world that’s moving faster than ever. (9:46) I don’t know anybody that’s not under some form of pressure or change or stress. (9:52) And so it’s really important right now for leaders to create real connections, not just in their workplace, but outside their workplace, because it really seems like everybody’s onto the next, onto the next, onto the next.

(10:06) And I find that it’s really hard to close anything that you’re trying to close if you haven’t built that connection. (10:14) And so, you know, how do these skills compound over time? (10:18) If you do one right, but you missed the other two, or you do two right, but missed the close.

(10:22) Talk to me a little bit about the compounding over time.

Laura

(10:26) It becomes your reputation, right? (10:28) There’s a difference between I had a bad day and yeah, you never quite show up fully ready, fully present, fully connecting. (10:38) There’s always an edge.

(10:39) There’s always a, something’s always off and where, you know, the, the words that we use when we’re giving data, when we’re explaining things, when we’re pitching an idea, they speak to our conscious mind. (10:55) I’m a cognitive linguist by background. (10:57) Those are, those words speak to the conscious.

(11:00) That’s like your mental Excel spreadsheets, carry the one, process the data. (11:05) You can see somebody looking up into their head as they’re kind of thinking and trying to wrap their heads around what you’re saying. (11:11) But those other details, the ability (11:14) to take, when you feel like someone’s truly listening to you, when you feel like what (11:19) you’re saying is important to them, when you feel like they’re trying to make their information (11:25) relevant to you and putting it in terms that you can understand, not dumbing it down, (11:29) because you can tell when somebody is doing that and that’s condescending, (11:32) when they’re making it relatable, when you show up confidently, when you are telling a story, (11:37) using an analogy, sharing some example to help connect with them, all of those things, (11:43) all that speaks to the unconscious. (11:46) And people make decisions first in their unconscious on a reflex level. (11:53) And then they turn to their conscious mind to seek data, to back up and justify what they’ve already decided deep down.

(12:01) It’s not a conscious process, but that is the sequence that they follow. (12:05) So if all you’re good at is kind of data dumping on somebody, you’re going to speak to their conscious, but that’s not enough. (12:14) There’s still a hesitation and neither of you knows why, but when you master the art of all those other details and connecting with them on an unconscious level, it’s amazing how quickly you’ll pave that road to moving forward together.

Melissa

(12:31) Yeah. (12:31) I love that. (12:32) And I also love you talk a little bit about your brand when you’re not performing.

(12:38) And I love that because it’s such a idea. (12:42) It’s, it’s built when you’re not even trying. (12:44) And it’s funny because I’ve had many times in my career where people are like, Oh, you’re a this.

(12:49) And I’m like, I am a this. (12:50) And I went, I didn’t even realize I was a this. (12:53) And so talk to us a little bit about what does that mean?

(12:58) You know, your brand is built when you’re not trying.

Laura

(13:01) Sure. (13:02) Everybody knows when the spotlight’s going to be on them. (13:06) You have a big presentation to prepare.

(13:08) You’re going to be in front of the board. (13:10) You have an investor meeting or an investor pitch. (13:13) There’s those are the big moments when you spent all sorts of time trying preparing because you know so much is at stake and there’s a lot at risk for you in success at that moment.

(13:25) So, but that’s not who you are. (13:27) That’s what you can do when you have to. (13:30) So are you turning on the charisma?

(13:32) Are you smiling at people? (13:33) Are you acting interested in them? (13:35) Are you listening intently to their questions and responding respectfully, et cetera?

(13:39) That’s great. (13:40) But then the other five days a week and the other 900 meetings that you have in the course of that week, are you stepping on people? (13:48) Do you not let them finish their sentences?

(13:50) Do you roll your eyes and use language that’s a little on the disrespectful side with them? (13:58) Do you insist on being your way? (14:00) Do you show up unprepared?

(14:02) Do you sit there and stumble? (14:04) Maybe it’s not the arrogance. (14:05) Maybe it’s the opposite.

(14:06) It’s sure you’re confident as long as you’ve prepared, memorized, as long as you don’t get interrupted, don’t get asked a question. (14:14) But normally, do you sit in the back and not want to participate in meetings because you don’t like people to look at you? (14:21) You don’t want to be the center of attention so you hold back?

(14:24) Do you stumble over yourself when you get asked a hard question? (14:28) Do you sit there and defer or just say, I don’t know, I’ll get back to you on that? (14:34) Do you not ask any questions intentionally showing that you have original thoughts to add?

(14:40) That’s what people know you to be. (14:42) It’s not just, can you put on your tuxedo when you have to step into the spotlight? (14:49) That’s what you can do, not who you are.

(14:52) That’s the reputation and that’s what will end up either moving you forward or really undermining your progress.

Melissa

(15:00) I have had this discussion with several of my friends and I’ve just asked them, what do you think about this, this, this, and this about me? (15:09) Or how would you classify me? (15:11) Or how would you identify me?

(15:12) Or what are my best characteristics? (15:15) And what was shocking to me is sometimes what I thought was different than how I was perceived by the people I spent the most time with. (15:24) And so I love this exercise, the 360 review and asking some people about, you know, do I keep my words?

(15:33) Am I dependable? (15:34) Things that, you know, I know I am and I’m certain of it. (15:38) And I asked my friends that are like, yep, absolutely.

(15:41) But if, if you think you’re dependable and your friends are like, no, you’re always late for everything. (15:46) Sometimes I’m not sure if you’re there, you really need to do some, you know, internal work because if it’s not matching, it’s not how you’re perceived in the world. (15:56) So I want to talk a little bit about, you know, building your thought leader identity and how should professionals think about building their public brand, not just as experts of their field, but actually as a thought leader.

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Laura

(16:43) There are a lot of ways that you can do this. (16:46) And of course it’ll depend on your industry. (16:48) It’ll depend on your company, the size where you’re connected to what you’re legally allowed to put forward publicly to the extent that if you’re in investment management, for example, or asset management, excuse me, or other legal things, of course there are rules as far as what your company will allow you to post on LinkedIn or something.

(17:12) But the question is, where do you want to go? (17:17) And when you think about thought leadership, is the goal to move up higher in your company? (17:23) Is it to move out?

(17:25) Is it to start your own company? (17:27) What is the brand that you want to create? (17:31) Who do you want to have that image of you?

(17:35) Where are they? (17:37) And how do you establish, how do you get in front of them? (17:42) So there’s many ways that you can do this.

(17:45) It can be on the larger side, like doing a podcast like this. (17:49) This is a fun way that I love to share insights and to share tips with people. (17:54) It also lets me connect with people who might not know that my work is out there.

(17:57) Maybe they want to look at my book later. (17:59) Maybe they want to talk about coaching or training. (18:01) That’s great.

(18:01) So this is a chance for me to connect with them, but it’s a chance, podcasting, just like you’re doing it for similar reasons, it’s thought leadership. (18:10) It’s giving people new ideas. (18:14) So get out there, find one of the many free or almost free platforms that will allow you, whoever you are, to put yourself out there and say, I’m an expert in this, and I want to talk to this group of people about these kinds of topics.

(18:29) And okay, that’s great. (18:31) Then people can invite you to do that. (18:33) Maybe there are conferences you can speak at.

(18:35) Maybe there are local chamber of commerce events where you can give tips on something or other, or you can be on a panel. (18:42) Maybe it’s an internal lunch and learn. (18:45) Maybe there are departmental things you can offer, some mentoring opportunities.

(18:48) Are there ERGs, employee resource groups? (18:51) They have SIGs and lots of different acronyms. (18:54) Everybody’s got their own alphabet soup.

(18:55) But where can you get in front of somebody? (18:58) Can you do a 20 minute little webinar for the new hires in your organization? (19:04) What is the reputation that you are trying to build?

(19:07) Figure out who needs to see you that way, and then be proactive and say, I want to give. (19:14) Okay, Melissa, here’s the key. (19:17) It’s not about arrogance.

(19:20) It’s not about being a spotlight hog. (19:23) It’s not about saying, hey, everybody, look at me. (19:25) Look at me.

(19:26) I like to be center of attention. (19:27) Look at me. (19:28) It is generosity.

(19:30) Do you love what you do? (19:32) Do you want to be generous? (19:34) Do you want to serve?

(19:36) Do you want to give? (19:37) I’m not here talking with you and with the audience because I love looking at my face on video that much more. (19:44) No, it’s because I love being able to help people.

(19:47) I love what I do, and I want to do it for more. (19:49) This is a way that I can do that and serve. (19:53) Through it, hopefully, thought leadership builds as well, but you go in with a heart and a mind of service, not of self-serving arrogance and spotlight hog.

(20:07) Get the mindset straight or just step aside because you’ll sabotage yourself from day one.

Melissa

(20:12) Yeah. (20:12) I think it’s get clear on two. (20:16) I know for myself, I wasn’t always clear what I was doing thought leadership for.

(20:22) I would just say, this was interesting this week, and I posted out in the universe. (20:27) This happened with my kids. (20:29) This happened with my job.

(20:30) This happened with wealth. (20:32) It got sticky. (20:34) I was posting about so much.

(20:35) I was very inconsistent in building my brand and building leadership being visible. (20:44) The question is, how do leaders scale influence beyond their organization? (20:49) I know in my case, I was scaling for an organization for the beginning parts of my LinkedIn.

(20:57) I was building the company I worked for following their brand, but I wasn’t really building my brand. (21:03) It wasn’t until I switched and scaled that I was more than an employee of a company. (21:09) I was this other person that I started to get traction myself.

(21:14) I’d love to get your perspective on that.

Laura

(21:16) Sure. (21:17) Of course, there is the personal brand and the professional brand. (21:20) They should align on some level.

(21:23) If you are a lawyer by trade and you have a law firm, but you want to open a yoga studio, those are very different brands. (21:34) Maybe you don’t want to open the studio, but you just like to teach yoga on the side. (21:38) It’s okay.

(21:39) Great. (21:39) It’s not that you can’t, but what you put on Instagram with yoga is going to be very different from what you post on LinkedIn with law. (21:48) They’re different audiences.

(21:49) They’re going to be in different places. (21:51) You have to think about how much do you want either demographic to see the other side of you. (21:58) I’m very private.

(21:59) I don’t have a personal Facebook page. (22:00) I don’t have a personal LinkedIn. (22:02) It’s all just professional.

(22:03) I don’t post pictures of my kids. (22:05) I don’t post pictures of family events, those kinds of things. (22:08) It’s just not something that I’ve ever been comfortable doing, which is not to say that when I’m writing my articles on LinkedIn or my weekly newsletters that I don’t tell stories about the family.

(22:18) If there is a relevance that’s going to tie into something about communication, about (22:24) influence, about leadership, where there’s a moral to the story or an allegory of some sort, (22:30) but you have to choose carefully about what you post where and be willing on that level, (22:37) if you want to be known, to be discerningly, judiciously vulnerable in sharing yourself, (22:46) not just your expertise, because they do want to connect with you as a person. (22:50) They want to know who you are as an individual.

(22:53) That’s how they learn to trust you, but there’s definitely TMI. (22:57) I’ve identified a very stark boundary between personal and professional and what I won’t share online.

Melissa

(23:07) Yeah, I agree. (23:08) I think some social media platforms are becoming too personal and we’re kind of losing their professional stance on it. (23:16) Yes.

(23:17) So for founders, communication is everything and it’s very critical in their business. (23:22) What’s the biggest challenge when explaining what you do to others as a founder?

Laura

(23:30) The most counterintuitive challenge, I think, is the ability to start by just framing what you do as a value in a way that is super simple. (23:46) Because as founders, we love our content, we love our industry, we love our subject matter expertise, and we forget that not everybody is as enamored with it as we are. (23:57) They don’t have the background, they don’t know all the details and the data, and we get way too lost in the weeds.

(24:03) And we’re like, you want to hear 20 minutes worth of the background of all the stuff that I do and all the stuff that I could do for you and stuff, don’t you? (24:10) And they’re going, no, no, not really, I don’t. (24:14) So if you can frame it in some relatable, simple, not simplistic, not dumbed down, but simple and instantaneously gettable, not comprehendable, wait, give me a second to process this, gut level, I get it, simple way.

(24:33) That is harder than it sounds and utterly necessary. (24:38) Sometimes when I’m in networking events and the question, of course, is always, so what do you do? (24:43) And I’m not going to launch right into the, well, I’m a cognitive linguist and I’m an executive coach and I work with senior leaders on, but I’ll start with things like, well, have you ever had one of those moments where you’re talking and you suddenly think to yourself, okay, that sounded better in my head.

(24:59) So most people do exactly what you just did. (25:01) And they’ll kind of laugh and they’ll do like the big, slow, deep head nod, like, yes, I’ve been there three times in the last two hours or something along those lines. (25:10) And I’ll follow up So I fix that and then I’ll go and they’re going, oh, that’s interesting.

(25:15) And I can follow up with, I do executive coaching and working with linears, blah, blah, blah. (25:19) But at that point, they don’t know exactly what the technical stuff is. (25:23) I haven’t gone into my background.

(25:25) I haven’t gone into, I do private coaching and I do group trainings and I do these kinds of things. (25:29) They just know, okay, I got the pain point because yes, I’ve had that experience multiple times and I hate it and you can fix it. (25:37) I don’t know what that means, but I want to know what it means.

(25:40) So tell me more. (25:41) And then they ask the questions for me to fill in. (25:44) I’m not just holding them hostage while I data dump my entire resume, LinkedIn profile, or about page from my website.

(25:52) So just a little taste in the beginning where they go, Ooh, that sounds interesting. (25:57) Okay. (25:58) Tell me about how, how does that happen?

(25:59) What does it look like? (26:01) Get them to say, tell me more.

Melissa

(26:02) Yeah. (26:03) And I like that because I find that founders over-complicate their message because they’re very passionate about what they’re building. (26:11) They want to share, share, share, share, share.

(26:13) And then kind of to what you were saying, I’m sitting on the other end, like, okay, what do they do? (26:18) Where, where is this going? (26:20) And I’m right.

Laura

(26:20) You blazed over 20 minutes ago.

Melissa

(26:22) Right. (26:22) And I lose what they’re talking about. (26:24) Like my brain has shut down.

(26:25) I’m thinking about, should I go get a snack? (26:28) Am I hungry? (26:28) Do I need something to drink?

(26:30) Right. (26:30) And I don’t do it weirdly. (26:32) They’re just out of contacts, right?

(26:34) They’ve lost their, their, to your point, how do we simplify without losing depth? (26:44) So you kind of said it great is just give them a little taste of that. (26:48) So, you know, is there a, a, like a tactic or a tip that you do when you are trying to simplify to get clear?

(26:57) Like I’m a coach and this is what I do, but you’re not losing depth because you still want to remain credible and get people to continue to talk. (27:05) So any kind of tips on that?

Laura

(27:09) There’s a few things. (27:11) One is use somebody else as a sounding board, because to me, the greatest challenge as a founder is that you’re too close to your own stuff. (27:21) It was hard for me to come up with ways to describe what I do in ways that are clear, concise, compelling, simple, because I’m too close to it.

(27:30) I do it for everybody else. (27:31) That’s my job in many ways is to help people get their messages down. (27:35) But for me to get mine down, you can’t see the forest for the trees.

(27:38) So you need to have a sounding board. (27:41) You need somebody to feed back to you what they hear you say and, and distill it for you from the four minutes worth of conversation that they’ve had. (27:50) I remember talking to somebody years ago and blathering around all this stuff that I was, that I do.

(27:56) And she kind of thought for a second and she said, so you’re an influence coach. (28:00) And I went, oh yeah, I like that. (28:04) That sounds so much better than the 42 words I was using previously.

(28:08) So not in the influencer, TikTok, whatever sense of the YouTuber world of influencing, but an influence coach. (28:16) I help senior executives have more influence, get more yeses, period. (28:22) Okay.

(28:23) What does that look like? (28:24) Sure. (28:24) We can go into more detail, but it took somebody else to just process what I had just data dumped and give me back those two words.

(28:33) Oh, so you’re an influence coach. (28:35) And I went, yeah, yes, that’s, thank you. (28:39) That’s exactly what it is.

(28:40) So use somebody else’s sounding board. (28:42) You can’t do it for yourself.

Melissa

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Laura

(29:45) It’s how the content is conveyed. (29:50) Can you make the content relatable to the other person? (29:55) Do they understand a, what you’re talking about?

(29:59) Do they understand why it matters? (30:01) Do they understand what’s in it for them? (30:03) Do they understand implications in either direction?

(30:07) And I think a lot of people over to your point earlier, over complicate and over compensate by when there are nerves involved or there’s a lot of pressure and their primary concern consciously and unconsciously is I need to sound smart. (30:26) I just need to prove to them how hard I’ve worked, how much background I have, how much blah, blah, blah. (30:32) And then just compel them to say yes to, to agree to whatever I’m suggesting.

(30:39) And when you go into the, I have to sound smart mode, use as many big words as possible. (30:45) Use as much data as possible. (30:47) Preempt to any questions possible.

(30:50) You’ve snowed them. (30:52) Number one, they’ve tuned out a long time ago. (30:54) And the only thing they leave with is thinking, well, I guess she’s smart.

(31:00) I don’t know what she said. (31:02) I, but I don’t know what to do with it. (31:04) So I’m not going to do anything with it because all I got was apparently she’s smart, but that doesn’t mean anything to me.

(31:10) The, again, very counter intuitive point is that the best way to make people think you’re smart is to make them feel smart. (31:19) And the best way to do that is to be able to distill your key points down so that they’re so crystal clear, concise, compelling that people go, Oh, okay. (31:31) That makes sense.

(31:33) Got it. (31:34) Okay. (31:35) Let’s move forward.

(31:36) You made them feel smart and they will then reflect that back to you. (31:40) And that’s where you move forward. (31:42) Much that which is simple is not necessarily easy.

(31:47) That’s a key, but work on that.

Melissa

(31:49) Yeah. (31:49) And I love that. (31:50) I mean, I’ve been in these networking events where I felt suffocated when somebody was talking to me, I felt like they had their foot on my chest because I didn’t get a word in edgewise and they were just dumping everything in their brain on top of me.

(32:02) And so to your point, I think it’s, it’s not only kind, but it’s good for, you know, I always tell my children this, you have two ears, one mouth, use them proportionally. (32:12) So if you’re talking 99% of the time and the person’s not even there, it’s a good gauge that you’ve probably lost them and they’re probably not going to take anything away with it. (32:25) And so to your point at the beginning, having a dialogue, I think it lands better with people and asking good questions, getting curious, you know, what made you want to start that business?

(32:38) Oh, really? (32:39) You grew up in, you know, Philadelphia. (32:42) No way.

(32:42) I have friends there. (32:44) I have family there. (32:45) You’re making dialogue and you’re bringing similarities into the dialogue.

(32:55) Lost my words there. (32:56) And it helps you build influence quickly and align with the person you’re talking to. (33:03) And oftentimes if there’s not alignment, it’s okay.

(33:07) Right? (33:07) Shake hands and move forward. (33:10) Not everybody’s going to be looking for the same things as you.

(33:13) And when that happens, asking, Hey, do you know anybody that’s looking for a, you know, a this or a that and asking them? (33:21) And that’s a sure sign that you’ve either made an impression on somebody or you’ve not made an impression. (33:29) And oftentimes I have people that I’ll ask, Hey, do you know somebody that like sells houses in this area?

(33:35) And they’re like, Oh my gosh, I have 10 real estate agents. (33:37) And I’ll get some fantastic referrals from people. (33:41) And so, you know, I’d love to also get your perspective on why some messages land and others just don’t.

(33:50) I feel like often right now I’m talking to a door in the world. (33:56) I feel like so many people are standing next to me. (33:58) They’re looking at me, but they’re millions of miles away from the dialogue I’m talking.

(34:04) And I’d love to get your take on kind of what’s going on right now.

Laura

(34:08) It can. (34:10) That’s such a big question. (34:12) And there are so many different reasons why people are just not mentally present in the moment.

(34:17) I mean, it could be because there’s something that has them distracted from their personal life outside of where they are right now. (34:23) It could be that they have a huge project that major deadline looming, and they really need to be sitting at their computer working on it. (34:31) But for whatever reason, they’re here talking to you and they just don’t want to be.

(34:35) It could be that you’ve rambled, not personally, but you know, whoever it is out there that you’ve rambled for the last 20 minutes and haven’t to your earlier example, haven’t let the other person get a word in edgewise. (34:46) And sometimes people are super passionate about it. (34:48) It’s not that they are trying to be salesy or anything else.

(34:53) I had a conversation not long ago with, it was a networking conversation. (34:57) I’d met her briefly at an event. (34:58) And so we wanted to get together to dig a little deeper, looking for synergy.

(35:04) We were on a call for about 30 minutes. (35:08) She didn’t ask me one question. (35:10) You know, I’d ask her a few things and, you know, she’d take it and she’d run and she’d tell me all about her life and all about this and all about that.

(35:18) And then she stopped. (35:20) I’m going, I mean, could I have volunteered something in return? (35:23) Yeah.

(35:23) But I was like, I just at this point want to know if she’s at all interested. (35:27) I’m not going to force information. (35:29) And by the end of the half hour, I was like, nope.

(35:30) Okay. (35:32) She’s, I don’t know where her mind is, but she’s clearly not interested in learning about me. (35:35) She’s clearly interested in telling me about herself.

(35:39) In which case that’s good. (35:40) I’ve learned what I need to know, which is that I don’t want to do business with you collaboratively or otherwise. (35:46) It’s not that she doesn’t have great stuff and it’s not that I think I’m the hottest thing on the planet, but I want someone who’s not completely self-absorbed and that’s an important place to be.

(35:55) So, you know, take some cues at that point, if they’re not responding to you, perhaps you haven’t actually asked them a question or given them something to respond to. (36:06) A lot of people aren’t very good at conversation in that way, or not from the opposite extreme. (36:11) They’re just socially awkward or they need a little help getting more confident or more comfortable talking to strangers.

(36:19) So, okay. (36:20) Ask questions aside from the, what do you do? (36:22) Try something as a follow-up, like, so what do you like most about it?

(36:26) What’s your favorite part of the day? (36:29) Or if you were going to talk to your 22-year-old self right out of college, what advice would you give? (36:35) Or, you know, there’s so many things that you could ask that are simple that you’ll watch people, especially the, what do you like best about it?

(36:42) It forces people to go to their happy place and find what they like. (36:45) And you’ll watch their face smile. (36:47) And suddenly they’re, they’re, they’re happy to talk to you and share something that they love.

(36:51) It just helps people warm up naturally. (36:53) So there are little ins you can take.

Melissa

(36:56) Yeah, I, I think it’s so true. (36:58) It’s really learning how to communicate. (37:00) I work in technology and I’ve worked in engineering a large majority of my career.

(37:07) And historically this is a, you know, a generalized statement. (37:10) A lot of us were introverts. (37:12) And so getting in a room with a bunch of engineers and technical people, I learned quickly if I didn’t learn how to communicate, I’d be standing in a room by myself around a bunch of people that didn’t want to communicate.

(37:24) And so I actually learned how to communicate by being one of those people in the corner, realizing that nobody was talking to each other and someone had to, you know, open it up. (37:34) And so I think it’s such an important thing that we’re talking about today. (37:39) I want to get any kind of final thoughts or anything you want to leave with our listeners before we close up.

Laura

(37:46) Start with the end in mind. (37:48) When it comes to branding on a personal level, be it for, because you want to go and start a business or because you are already at the top of your game or because you’re vying for the next level of leadership, you have to really think about to be in that role. (38:04) What kind of person will be most successful aside from technical expertise?

(38:09) We already know you got that one under your belt. (38:12) What qualities would you need to see in that leader? (38:17) What qualities would be part of that and how do you exude those qualities?

(38:23) Think about them in terms of just single word adjectives. (38:27) Don’t say stuff like leader. (38:29) Okay.

(38:29) Yeah. (38:29) What does that mean? (38:30) That’s a very subjective, but confidence, empathy, approachability, charisma.

(38:39) There’s so many things that you need to see and it may vary, but then ask yourself, do you show those qualities or do you keep them all inside? (38:50) Because you’re not going to have time to develop them when you get there. (38:53) You won’t get there if you’re not already showing them.

(38:55) You have to demonstrate the qualities of the role that you want, not just the role that you have. (39:01) Yep.

Melissa

(39:03) Your branding isn’t built in the big moments. (39:06) It’s built in the every single day ones. (39:09) And so Dr. Laura Sekola reminds us this and influence isn’t about sounding impressive. (39:15) It’s about being understood, trusted, and followed. (39:19) And that’s a skill worth building long before you think you need it. (39:23) So thank you for sharing that with our listeners today.

(39:26) If you enjoyed this episode of Executive Connect, make sure to follow and share it with your leaders, building their influence and their presence. (39:35) For more conversations on leadership communication and executive presence, subscribe to YouTube or follow us on your favorite platform. (39:44) Thanks for being here with us today, Dr. Laura. (39:47) That’s the Executive Connect podcast.