In this episode of Executive Connect, host Melissa Aarskaug sits down with Carlee Wolfe, a transformation leader who has guided organizations through hypergrowth, crisis, and reinvention at Hyatt Hotels, Under Armour, and the U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Committee. Carlee brings a grounded, human perspective to leadership in a rapidly changing world where uncertainty, AI, and constant disruption are the norm.

Together, we explore how leaders can invest in tomorrow while still managing today, how curiosity drives clarity instead of chaos, and why long-term growth depends on intentional learning, energy protection, and strong relationships. This conversation is practical, reflective, and deeply relevant for leaders navigating change without losing themselves in the process.

Chapters:

(0:00) Leadership in a world of uncertainty
(0:18) Why the future of work is already here
(1:29) Lessons from transformation at global brands
(3:47) Leadership decisions in the age of AI
(4:49) Investing in the future while managing today
(5:46) Curiosity as a leadership advantage
(7:37) Building learning cultures without burnout
(10:07) Rapid learning and skill evolution
(12:08) Using AI to support development and focus
(14:09) Energizing teams instead of exhausting them
(17:01) The three C’s framework for growth
(19:41) Leading with curiosity and clarity under pressure
(22:11) Building a personal board of directors
(27:24) Making relationships meaningful, not transactional
(33:05) Protecting energy during long-term transformation
(38:45) Navigating the messy middle
(41:02) Final leadership reflections
(42:11) How to connect with Carlee Wolfe

Carlee

(0:00) In the world that is highly gray right now, I think, and this is the tough part about leadership and management, we don’t have all the answers. (0:08) And so to say, I don’t have all the answers, but let’s get curious together. (0:12) Let’s prioritize what we can do, what we need to solve and what we can’t solve.

Melissa

(0:18) The Future of Work isn’t a sci-fi movie set in 2089. (0:23) It’s right here, right now, changing faster than our inboxes can refresh. (0:28) My guest today has made a career helping organizations thrive in the middle of that change.

(0:35) Carly Wolfe has led transformation at Hyatt Hotels, Under Armour, and the U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Committee, tackling everything from hypergrowth to crisis pivots. (0:47) Today, we’re going to talk about how leaders can invest in tomorrow without losing sight of today, why your skill set needs constant upgrading, and the secret to building a personal board of directors that keep you future-proof. (1:03) Carly, welcome to the show.

Carlee

(1:06) Thank you so much for having me. (1:08) I’m super excited for our conversation.

Melissa

(1:10) You’ve been on the front lines of organizational change for mission-driven giants like Hyatt, Under Armour, and the U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Committee. (1:23) Set the scene for us. (1:24) What’s the real story behind the shift and how we were?

Carlee

(1:29) Okay, well, I appreciate the question. (1:31) I think the shift in work in those chapters of my career have meant something different than I think we’re also at right now. (1:39) For me, I’ve built my career on those pivot moments and just taken back to, maybe I’ll just give the most recent two examples of Under Armour joining a brand that was at its peak of growth.

(1:50) In that question of what’s next for us, how are we relating the brand to our current consumer? (1:56) How do we grow globally? (1:58) How do we do that in a real intentional way so that the operations are tight?

(2:02) As you can imagine, a global brand that big coming out of, when I say hyper growth, I mean almost startup feeling, right? (2:09) A lot of entrepreneurial spirit. (2:11) How do you keep that, but also be intentional about big global brand?

(2:15) That was a ton of fun thinking about the challenges there, being a part of an organization that, there were a lot of leaders that were there that started the organization and were still present. (2:25) In my role, also being a part of their, not just the next level of the organization, but their next level of their leadership journey, right? (2:32) The whole saying of what got me here won’t get me there.

(2:34) That was true both in the business and with those individuals. (2:38) That was a ton of fun. (2:40) The other big thing then when I made pivot to Hyatt, it was in the middle of the pandemic, so 2020.

(2:45) Just to bring people into industry impacts, hospitality was one of those, if you’re watching the news, they’re like, is it ever going to come back? (2:54) That’s what my friends also were asking me when I decided to take the job. (2:57) For me, joining that brand, knowing where they were at financially and what the plan was, both within that time period, which is to take care of people, and then outside of that time period, how are they going to rebuild?

(3:08) That was exciting. (3:09) The rebuild run has been amazing, both in bringing operations back in an intentional way, but also lots of acquisition growth. (3:17) Now, moving into a real focus on brands and differentiating how that shows up in market is a ton of fun.

(3:24) The thread there is not just for disruption, but leadership. (3:27) Again, how are people evolving? (3:29) The other question you asked me was, or in that spirit is, but also those changes, while they’re still happening in market, I think we’re in the middle of a whole other shift of not just the market, but workplace, workforce, our communities, and how are we making big pivots through AI?

(3:47) Not just changing how we work, but where we connect and how we get things done. (3:52) Similarly, there is a leadership thread. (3:54) How are leaders making intentional decisions about where AI will go and how it will add value to the organization?

(3:59) How are they leading? (4:00) Think about within the context of a team or a company, maybe my team makeup is now some humans and some bots and some agents. (4:07) What does that mean in terms of capabilities and what I’m doing?

(4:11) You mentioned skill sets at the start. (4:13) What we have today will continue to evolve, both in an augmented way, but in a whole new opening of careers and jobs. (4:22) There’s lots going on in the disruption space.

(4:24) We’re in the middle of it. (4:25) You and I right now are talking about the very edge of, we feel some of it, but I think we’re about and will continue to make huge, huge leaps.

Melissa

(4:32) I love that. (4:33) I think it’s almost like, are we evolving fast enough or are we just reacting to what’s happening? (4:42) Let’s talk about investing in the future while still managing today.

(4:49) One of the hardest balancing acts in leadership is managing the now while you’re building for growth and whatever’s next. (4:57) I know you talk about making deposits for the future. (5:02) What does that look like when you’re putting out fires today while making deposits for the future?

Carlee

(5:09) First, I love the framing of the question because when I talk to people about this, I always bring in the sense of paradox. (5:16) It’s this continual stretch of where can I be, where am I at, and those things maybe being in conflict. (5:23) I do want to acknowledge the leaders that go through this because it is a really difficult position.

(5:29) But to your point, one thing that we can be influencing the stretch out into what can be is taking a look within the context of your industry, within the context of your role, and starting to consume and saying, what’s changing in my space that I want to? (5:44) I’m just going to offer something simple. (5:46) What do I want to be curious about?

(5:48) What do I want to learn and start to see that’s changing for me, and where can I start to consume and apply some of those changes? (5:56) For example, an easy one that we already teed off would be AI. (6:00) I can’t think of any space where there’s not a conversation about efficiency, which really is about using tools to move tasks forward more quickly, augment work.

(6:12) If you’re already in a space where this is a question of what does that mean, or yeah, yeah, I got it because it’s just tech and tech will do it, I would encourage people to push more. (6:20) What does that mean for my role? (6:22) If you don’t know where to start, that’s literally a Google search that’s asking someone in your space that’s passionate about this.

(6:28) I think that starts to, and I’m just pulling an example, I think that starts to give you an opportunity to bleed into or lead into the future and your skill sets, which is serving you both in how do I stay as a leader, how do I stay informed and moving not just myself forward, but probably your team and organization. (6:49) That also, I think, helps in the current state because you’re potentially also then, as an evolution of those skills, being better at how you’re mastering your current role. (6:59) I think that’s where we need to then find the capacity and time to make that happen, because then it doesn’t just become this paradox of a trade between one or the other, you’re moving the whole system forward if you’re making that investment.

Melissa

(7:10) And I love that. (7:13) When we’re talking, I’m thinking, if you’ve seen Bruce Almighty, the scene where he’s giving everybody their wishes, and he’s typing as fast as he can, and all these filing cabinets are filling the wishes. (7:25) I think about how can teams adopt this mindset, operationalized mindset, without feeling like it’s a bunch of checklists?

(7:37) I don’t know. (7:39) It almost feels like the world now we’re operating on these ongoing, never-completed checklists day to day. (7:44) How can teams really shift that mindset?

Carlee

(7:48) Yep. (7:49) I love that. (7:51) I subscribe to the ongoing checklist.

(7:53) My big goal, I don’t know about you, but at the end of the year, I’m always like, I’m going to get all my checklists done. (7:58) I’m going to build a master checklist. (7:59) And by December 31st, the whole year checklist will be finished.

(8:04) So I love this. (8:06) Now, joking aside, I do think having some, we’ll use data to help prioritize how you think about this. (8:12) I think to the point, when I say data, a checklist could actually be a data point.

(8:16) What are the things? (8:18) So you asked, how do we do this as a team? (8:20) Well, let’s just talk about it.

(8:21) What are a couple of things that we want to do to build, I’ll use the term learning culture on the team, or curiosity culture? (8:28) Fill in the blank of what feels right for you, but where are you encouraging yourself and your team to think about the evolution and continual learning that you want on the group? (8:39) And so I started to say, again, whether it’s self or team, what does that mean for me?

(8:42) What do I want to do? (8:44) Well, I want to learn about future markets. (8:48) I want to learn about what’s changing in my industry.

(8:53) I want to learn about AI. (8:54) Let’s just pick those three things. (8:56) And instead of it just becoming a checklist, then we start to ask, okay, well, where do I really want to prioritize?

(9:00) I just gave you three things. (9:01) Let’s just start with one. (9:03) And then let’s say with that one, what’s one step I want to take this week?

(9:07) What’s one step I want to take next week? (9:10) I think we’re just in this micro space of intentionality because we’re in a high consumption culture. (9:17) We just have to know we’re always consuming, always consuming.

(9:21) And so what we’re talking about here is intentional consumption, not consumption where it’s just sort of working through us. (9:28) So I think that if I were to give one piece of advice or thought about building that learning culture is about really getting hype around, well, one, we want to build a learning culture. (9:38) And two, what’s the one small thing that we just want to keep taking steps at?

(9:43) And if I were to offer two recommendations, it would be to say, and then talk about it. (9:48) Because then you’re reinforcing, one, the tone that you’ve said with the team, but two, I think there’s a value in group learning, and there’s a lot in that. (9:56) So in summary, intentional bits of consumption versus trying to do too much and over-consume and lean in.

Melissa

(10:07) I love that. (10:08) So let’s talk about rapid learning. (10:10) I feel like skills are expiring very fast these days.

(10:16) I have a friend that just finished an AI program at a college, and as they finished, it was a lot of what they were learning has changed in that period of time. (10:26) So how do teams keep up with this and where does AI fit into the evolution of rapid learning?

Carlee

(10:36) Yeah. (10:37) Well, first of all, I’m in an AI class right now, and they’re literally teaching it by as we go week to week with a flexible learning plan for that reason, because that’s how fast it’s going. (10:46) So I’m going to keep on the theme of, first of all, prioritization, because I think in the high consumption space that we’re in and the speed at which it’s happening, we can easily become overwhelmed.

(10:56) I think people could as easily just be like, it’s too much for me right now, I’m out, versus find a lane for yourself. (11:02) So I’ll keep on that theme to start, but how can teams or how can individuals even lean in, and I’m going to say, leverage AI to help them learn? (11:11) So let’s just play a scenario out.

(11:14) So I work in HR, I do leadership development. (11:16) So we’ll just use my example. (11:17) I can use actually my AI tools to help me prioritize and learn what I’m doing.

(11:23) I’ve been in leadership development for 20 years. (11:25) I’ve worked at global brands. (11:27) I’m just going to pick on something to build my executive presence.

(11:31) I really want to ensure over the next six months, I’m demonstrating influence, subject matter expertise of the future. (11:41) AI, can you help me build an executive development plan for me for the next six months to show up with these outcomes? (11:49) And then it can start to build that out.

(11:51) And I’d go another layer, which is, what does success look like each month? (11:56) What’s the absolute thing I have to do every single week? (12:00) Okay, I don’t like week number six topic, how can I evolve that?

(12:03) So I’m getting into the details, but I’m going to bring it back up to say, number one, I always use this term AI to AI. (12:08) So use AI to help you also infuse AI in what you’re doing. (12:12) And two, for folks that are, this is hard to get started.

(12:15) This is where the augmentation comes in, right? (12:16) The support to help pull out things that are helpful for you. (12:20) So you don’t have to, one, start from scratch, but two, don’t feel overwhelmed, right?

(12:24) You have a place to begin. (12:26) So that’s something I would throw out there to think about. (12:29) But I think that that also helps us stay up on what’s coming.

(12:33) And again, prioritize. (12:34) We can’t learn everything all the time, especially in the speed. (12:37) So start with what’s most important for you.

Melissa

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(13:16) And really think of AI as your own personalized coach. (13:21) And I think, I’ve heard this a few times throughout this year that AI is going to replace this job or replace training departments. (13:31) But I really see AI enhancing training departments.

(13:36) And I think creating a culture where people feel energized to learn, not back to the checklist, not exhausted. (13:46) And it’s just another thing on the checklist I got to complete. (13:49) You know, getting your perspective on what skills seem to be needed in this AI driven world that we’re living in, and how can companies create environments where employees are energized to actually do the training instead of exhausted?

Carlee

(14:09) Yeah. (14:09) And I want to comment too, you mentioned like the fear of AI taking away. (14:14) I think we are in this, how does it help augment, et cetera.

(14:17) And I always encourage people to flip that into possibilities. (14:21) I’m not here to say, not to acknowledge there won’t be change, because there’ll be change and tremendous amount of change. (14:26) How are you leaning into that opportunity?

(14:29) And let’s use training as the example. (14:32) I just gave you an example. (14:33) I’m like, hey, AI, build me a training plan.

(14:35) And there could be trainers out there right now thinking, but that’s my job. (14:39) And I would say, well, where do you want to go beyond that? (14:42) Because it’s not just sitting down and saying mechanically, how do I build you this plan?

(14:47) Maybe the outcome is how do I sit down and help enhance this plan with someone, right? (14:51) Because even in my example, I said, build me a leadership development plan, but I’m not sitting there and saying, okay, should I, I mean, I said, can I tweak this, but tweak it to what? (14:59) Maybe I don’t know.

(15:01) Well, that’s where that trainer can come in and be a real thought partner. (15:03) And if we use sports as an analogy, say you play basketball, it’s not like you’re out not playing basketball at the gym or at the park with your friends. (15:11) Let that passion drive for employees.

(15:13) That’s your, to your question. (15:14) That’s where the energy and excitement comes is there’s now employees have authorship over some of their work that they didn’t have before, and then use that subject matter expertise to come in and layer on top. (15:24) So again, sport, go play basketball, but I can go meet with my coach and they can review my tape and run it down into the skills and to the insights that most helpful for me.

(15:33) So how do you use this metaphorical example in your own space? (15:38) And then to your question about organizational culture, I think that this is where the opportunity sits. (15:43) How do you take something like augmentation and efficiency and start to open up possibilities for people, invite that excitement for what’s next and where people can go in depth, where they can bring their expertise like that they’ve never done before.

(15:57) I think that’s where you shift, not just moving out of fear to excitement, but to your point around learning culture, because it’s about, okay, I want to go on that journey. (16:05) You’re right. (16:06) Like, I don’t want to just write the plan anymore and structure these cells and get it into the right format, but I want to dig in with my partner and this leader and help them be the best leader that they can be.

(16:16) And to me, a conversation about that and digging in and resources to enhance their development sounds way more exciting than that, that formatting that I probably already spent a couple hours on. (16:25) So I think it’s that it’s, it’s the flip of the script and not in a, Hey, we’re making stuff up, but it truly dig in. (16:33) Why does this matter for the Melissa’s of the world and being intentional about that story?

Melissa

(16:40) So let’s talk a little bit about those moments when you’re thinking what got you here, won’t get you there. (16:50) You use something called the three C’s framework. (16:54) Can you walk us through that framework and how people can break down the three C’s?

Carlee

(17:01) Yeah. (17:01) So thinking about where you’re wanting to go next, three C’s curiosity, clarity, and confidence. (17:08) How can you be curious about what’s next?

(17:10) How can you be curious about what’s possible? (17:12) How can you be curious about what’s around me and what I want to change and using that curiosity to start to feed the, well, then where do I want to go? (17:21) How do I want to develop?

(17:22) How do I want that to look? (17:23) Which starts to build our clarity. (17:25) And with that clarity, right, we start to build that plan of how do we do it?

(17:30) How do I want to show up? (17:31) And then that gets us to our confidence, our full selves of I’ve shifted from here to there in whatever is next. (17:39) And so that’s like the right, the model or the we’ll call it the hypothetical.

(17:43) I’ll use this plate into careers, which is, I think a lot of people are sitting right now in a career space where either they’re unhappy, right? (17:51) Something’s like not happening for them that they would love to be happening, or they’re scared. (17:57) My job might go away.

(17:58) The market’s really tough, right? (17:59) There’s a lot just happening right now. (18:01) That’s putting people, I’ll just use the broad term around uncertainty.

(18:04) And so let’s get curious. (18:06) Okay. (18:06) Like why are we feeling this way?

(18:08) What do you potentially want to do next? (18:11) What excites you? (18:12) What did you see posted the other day that you thought, huh?

(18:14) Never heard of that before. (18:15) That seems kind of cool to start formulating like what’s possible and next for you. (18:20) And then using that curiosity to talk about it, to read about it, to research, which starts to build clarity around, you know what?

(18:27) I don’t have to be stuck here. (18:29) I could be learning a new skill. (18:30) I could be making a lateral move in my company.

(18:33) I could be thinking about a total disruption. (18:35) Maybe I want to go be an entrepreneur and then building that plan of, okay, well, then what does that look like for me to have the confidence to say, I am going to make that next step? (18:44) And I think this is that confidence part is what gets us over the, can I do it?

(18:49) Everyone keeps saying, I can’t, the societal messages are saying I can’t, but if you’ve been curious and you get that clarity, that confidence will drive you forward and bring in the possibilities that you’re, that you’re definitely seeking for yourself.

Melissa

(19:02) Yeah. (19:03) I always think of, you know, the tunnel where you just take one step forward and you can see the edge of the tunnel and you take another step and it’s a little bit more clear and you have the confidence to continue once you can see the end. (19:14) And so it’s really interesting to me.

(19:17) Curiosity really seems to be driving innovation more and more, but clarity keeps it from turning into chaos. (19:28) And so how do leaders maintain both curiosity and clarity under the amount of pressure that a lot of leaders are under today?

Carlee

(19:41) Yeah. (19:42) I love the fourth C that you’re adding. (19:44) This is like a layer of like caution of maybe not caution of understanding of what’s around us.

(19:50) And I think that by we are humans, there is always going to be curiosity. (19:56) And maybe if we just keep pulling on this in the organizational sense of what you’re asking me, maybe there’s quiet curiosity and there’s out loud curiosity. (20:03) So if I’m a leader and I’m running a team, maybe my fear is to your point that there’d be chaos if I opened up curiosity.

(20:10) But I encourage people to say, I think that people are always curious. (20:15) You want your team to be curious out loud, asking you the questions and exploring together because that starts to build that culture of trust. (20:22) It starts to build the culture of, well, what’s with that curiosity, then what’s possible, what can we do about it?

(20:28) And so I’d say lean in and sort of almost like disrupt that, like the chaos fear, I’ll call it. (20:36) I know that’s not what you’re directly saying, but I’m using it in that way because I think that then starts to build that clarity because in the world that is highly gray right now, I think, and this is the tough part about leadership and management, we don’t have all the answers. (20:50) And so to say, I don’t have all the answers, but let’s get curious together.

(20:54) Let’s prioritize what we can do, what we need to solve and what we can’t solve, which by the way, provides clarity and quiets the chaos. (21:01) And that gives us confidence to be able to move forward. (21:04) So lean in away from quiet curiosity to out loud curiosity to build the confidence culture that you’re ultimately wanting in your team, because that’s what drives solid performance and engagement.

Melissa

(21:18) Yeah. (21:18) And it’s such a big shift because I think back to when I got my first leadership role 20 something years ago, there was no like, let’s lean in and get curious because leaders were supposed to know everything. (21:31) And it’s, and I, the saying fake it till you make it.

(21:34) Right. (21:34) So we were going to fake it. (21:36) It’s knowing everything until we learned it to teach it to other people.

(21:40) So this is a, like a very different kind of looking at things and you’re right. (21:45) It’s not black and white. (21:47) It’s great.

(21:48) Now we are living in a world that is, you know, we, none of us can see in front of each other, right? (21:54) None of us, it’s all kind of foggy, but we still have to be taking these steps. (21:58) And so I want to switch gears and talk a little bit about, I love, love, love you take networking a step further with the idea of building a personal board of directors.

(22:11) And I love this and it’s, it’s funny because what you talk about, I’ve, you know, kind of been doing for the majority of my adult life without really calling it a personal board of directors, just realizing I had a bunch of really smart people around me doing things better than I was. (22:29) So I learned things, right? (22:30) So walk me through the difference and why does it matter in the world that we’re in today?

Carlee

(22:36) Yeah. (22:37) So first I can’t take credit for it. (22:39) I’ve stolen this probably from some sort of HBR article, people smarter than me, but I do to your point around the board of directors and what is it?

(22:46) The way I like to think about is we have like our big network, right? (22:49) People we’ve worked with it’s in our community, et cetera. (22:52) All these people are around to support and we are there to support them as well.

(22:56) The board of directors, much like an organization is there to kind of over oversee and to support the success of the long-term strategy of the company, or now what we are metaphorically using as people. (23:10) And so, as you had described in your experience of your maybe unstated, but now stated board of directors in your life, that’s what they’re there. (23:17) They’re helping you.

(23:18) They’re helping you push your long-term person strategy forward. (23:22) And so if you, perhaps people are listening and they’re like, okay, I sort of have that, like kind of where you just mentioned it, or I don’t know what that is. (23:29) Either way, what I would invite people to do is to think about who is the close network of people that you want really close to you that can serve the intent and the power of the forward mission of your life or work life.

(23:42) And that could be things like, maybe I have my friend that’s the devil’s advocate, but is so supportive of me that it’s a safe space for me to think about. (23:51) I’m thinking about switching careers. (23:53) What do you think about that?

(23:54) Well, have you thought about these things? (23:56) No, I haven’t done that. (23:56) All right, let me explore.

(23:58) Maybe it’s you have a mentor, someone who’s been in your field that’s done it before that can offer perspective of that future time. (24:06) Do you have someone who, I’m just saying, like a company, like a financial person, someone who is there to say like, how are you making decisions about your holistic life? (24:17) Part of that’s work, but there’s other pieces to that.

(24:19) Or when you get a new job, do you have someone that can help you understand the market to get the most out of your next steps? (24:26) Do you have or do you need a cheerleader? (24:28) For example, I love a good cheerleader on my board.

(24:30) I sometimes need that person that’s just supporting me. (24:33) Because in the future, sometimes self-doubt comes in, or can I do that? (24:38) And yes, it’s on me to explore and find that for myself.

(24:41) But to have a thought partner, to mirror possibilities, amazing. (24:45) Do I have someone on my board that works in a totally different field than I’m in that help might push my thinking in a different direction? (24:53) So I’m giving a few examples.

(24:54) But to really pull this through, pull up a piece of paper, draw yourself in the middle or draw yourself a draw circle, put yourself at the top of the circle. (25:02) This is your metaphorical boardroom. (25:04) And who are the people that you need for the future of your career and your life?

(25:09) And I don’t think, by the way, it’s cheesy to also let people know. (25:13) You’re so valuable in my life. (25:14) I consider you very close part of my direction and where I’m headed.

(25:19) You’re on my board of directors. (25:21) And like all good board directors, sometimes people need term limits. (25:25) As we evolve, things change.

(25:28) And so also know that that becomes also refreshing of the people that are closest to you. (25:32) It’s not that they’re not valuable or that you don’t care for them. (25:36) Both with yourself and them, we have so much capacity.

(25:38) So how are they in service to you in this season of your life or career?

Melissa

(25:42) I love that. (25:44) And being very intentional on who you’re selecting for those outward advisors, peers, mentors, whatever you’re calling them. (25:54) But match those people with the goals that you’re focused on.

(25:58) So if you have 10 board members, and they’re all specialized in something that you’re not focusing on, we need to draw another box to figure out who the people are. (26:08) So if your goal for 2026 is to take a new job, maybe somebody that can help you get there needs to be on that board. (26:17) And maybe you’re going to redo your finances.

(26:20) And maybe somebody that understands finances is going to be on it. (26:23) So matching those people with the goals that you’re driving to is really key. (26:28) And I love that you said timestamp it and let them know.

(26:33) Because funny enough, I’ve had somebody that has been one of my board members for over 20 years of my life. (26:43) And I never actually let them know, we just continue to have dialogue. (26:49) I’d catch up with them, buy them a cup of coffee.

(26:52) But it’s funny. (26:53) Now the roles have flipped, and their children, I am now on their children’s board, and they have notified me, they were on my board. (27:03) And now it’s my turn to pay it forward for their children.

(27:06) And so I love this, like getting clarity is kind. (27:10) Thank you, Brene Brown for that, because I do agree. (27:13) But talk to me a little bit about how leaders can approach these relationships without them feeling so transactional.

Carlee

(27:24) Totally. (27:25) By the way, I love your generational board work there. (27:28) That’s amazing.

(27:29) And I think you just gave an example of how it’s of not to be transactional, right? (27:34) Like I’m not subscribing you to this board, or this networking event, or this call that I’m making, because I think I can just gain from you. (27:42) I think we have to ask ourselves, just like any other relationship, because it is a relationship, what can we be offering for each other in this relationship?

(27:52) And in different seasons, I think those offerings shift. (27:55) So let’s play on your example, right? (27:57) You’ve been in your season of this board member, right?

(28:00) You’ve been able to benefit, spend time with, from your perspective, probably consumption, or guidance, right? (28:08) Support. (28:09) But for them, I’d be curious if they’re on the third line of our conversation, if we said, what did that relationship look like for you?

(28:16) They’d probably say, I got a lot of energy from that. (28:18) I got to spend some time coaching. (28:19) I got to see her success.

(28:21) And I just love supporting others in that. (28:24) And now we have a generational board member with her. (28:28) So I use that because I think relationship and exchange can show up in a lot of ways.

(28:32) It doesn’t mean it has to be the same offering or the same receipt, but know that it is a relationship. (28:39) I think as soon as it becomes transactional, hey, Ted has this to offer. (28:42) I’m going to go use that from him, right?

(28:45) Ted understands that. (28:46) And that is no longer a relationship. (28:48) It is a one-way conversation and a one-way usage.

(28:51) So I think, think about it as a relationship. (28:53) And how do we pull intently? (28:55) That was your question.

(28:56) You actually inspired this for me, which is if we think about ourselves as our own business, not because we own a business or we work in a business, but as a business, what is important for me? (29:06) What am I driving at? (29:07) So what’s my long-term strategy?

(29:09) What’s my strategy for the next year? (29:11) Let’s just say I am a business owner and my strategy is to grow my company by 10%. (29:15) I’m making up something easy.

(29:17) All right, well, then let’s look at the board who can help me with that. (29:20) Or what do I need to, what external research do I need to do to understand that? (29:25) What are the priorities I need to invest in growth?

(29:28) And so once we start pulling this all together, when we talk about networking, we could say, hey, I’m expanding my business next year by 10%. (29:36) I want to grow into a market I’ve never been in. (29:39) Susie, who’s been in this market for 20 years, is one of my friends.

(29:42) I’m going to go tap her. (29:44) We’re going to have that conversation. (29:45) Hey, Susie, I’m trying to grow this thing next year in the market that you’re very familiar with.

(29:49) I’d love to spend time with you, but let’s talk about why that would also be a benefit. (29:55) Where does that, does that add value for you? (29:57) Does that fit in your time?

(29:59) Where can I also support you in what you’re doing? (30:01) So I’m just giving you like a full makeup to say, where am I trying to go? (30:05) How can I enlist people to support and in that enlistment, continue to facilitate the relationship so that it’s fulfilling for everyone in service to continue to make it a positive and meaningful space.

Melissa

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(31:06) And I love that. (31:07) And I think the more we shift these discussions to where it’s giving and getting. (31:13) So relationships are both a give and both a get.

(31:18) And I have been very intentional this year in my own personal life with that, instead of everything being so transactional because we are in a place, you know, a do, do, do, do, pivot, left, right, smartwatch, bing, bing, bing, you know, all these things that we have going on. (31:36) And I don’t think people are doing it because it’s from a place of just take. (31:41) I just think we’re so go, go, go, go, go.

(31:45) And so really showing up in a place of give and get, like if somebody is going to give their time, maybe give them a coffee or bring them a coffee or help them with something they need help with. (31:59) And it will, it will help the relationship and kind of on that thread. (32:05) I was counting how many times I spoke in person this year, funny enough yesterday.

(32:10) And one of the common threads this year for me in 2025 was a lot of like, well, my gosh, you’re just so much better. (32:19) And you just did this so much faster. (32:21) And I, I, I often tell people that life and change is not like, we’re not good today and we’re good tomorrow, but it’s really sustaining, you know, I’ve had a season of my life I’m going through that was for 10 years.

(32:38) And I’ve been growing myself for 10 years. (32:41) And so what looks good to one person as Melissa just did this in like, you know, a year is really Melissa doing this in 10 years. (32:50) And so really change isn’t a sprint.

(32:53) It’s an endurance event. (32:55) So talk to me a little bit about how leaders can protect their energy and keep growing while still transforming.

Carlee

(33:05) Yes. (33:06) I love this so much, because I think that this is also where people get burnt out in trying to make the one day achievement without understanding it’s been a 10 year investment. (33:19) So one, I hope this just gives people a little bit of reprieve.

(33:23) In that because I talked to a lot of people about this, especially because you started with the stage, the stage, just like on the sports metaphors today, it’s the it’s the championship podium that people are on. (33:35) But know that there’s been 1000s of practices, hundreds of matches that sat behind that, that is the final complete moment, the packaging of one event and speaking, I think is a great one of that, because you’re literally on the stage. (33:49) And, and I do want to give credit to the journey, because you as you just said, as a lot of people do spend 10 years on that.

(33:55) So one recognizing, and then you asked, how can leaders have energy for that? (34:00) And I think it’s two part one understanding what that goal is that long term goal. (34:07) Maybe it is I want to be able to speak on a stage and say these things.

(34:10) Maybe it’s, I want to have a certain role and have this type of influence in a company, it’s, I want to be this type of parent at some point, like what is important to you, and put that out there and say it. (34:23) And also that goes back to tying it all in your board of directors, your business plan, or your personal business plan, where are you trying to go? (34:29) And then let’s back out of that and say, okay, if that long term goal is in five years, what does that look like next year?

(34:37) What does that look like? (34:39) Next quarter? (34:40) What can I do this month to put a deposit in?

(34:43) Because by mapping that out or spending some time even thinking about it, one, you start to understand also the short term games, which is needs, you need these rewards along the way to be like, okay, I’m doing something I am putting a deposit in. (34:57) And it gives you a marker for I’m on the right path for something that’s long term. (35:01) And the last thing I’ll share is this also then creates, we’re going to continue with like tapping into network, these like little micro moments of where can I consume where by consume?

(35:10) I mean, information, where can I connect with others? (35:12) How do I also wrap around value add for myself in these moments? (35:16) So, so I’d say long term goal, and then your intentional planning to back out of it.

(35:21) I think that that helps and have grace along the way for yourself, that it’s okay, that is taking time and celebrate with others. (35:31) This is where also not just your board of directors, but your friends and family can come into play and be like, I did this thing today. (35:37) So I’m going to go back to your example, big stage, I bet you backed out of that a long time ago and said, I’m just going to do this talk in this, this team, I’m going to do a podcast over here, I’m going to do a medium stage.

(35:49) And it’s sort of built from there. (35:51) So, so for everyone out there, what’s your long term, and let’s start to imagining both the long term, but the steps are going to take along the way.

Melissa

(35:59) And I’ll share a sports story with you. (36:01) I was on a all American softball team, I was, you know, played all most of my younger life softball, I was very good at it. (36:11) And in my sophomore year, I got popped in the face with a softball and cut from the team.

(36:18) And my identity was completely tied up in high school around softball, I was going to college on a full ride, everything I did was centered around softball, my parents were taking me all around the country, traveling, playing, competing, and I was cut from the team and my identity was shattered. (36:40) Well, to your point that year, you know, and this is in my book, I talk about this in my book, the next day, not the next month, not the next year, I tried out for the track team. (36:52) And mind you at the time, I hated to run, I was not a runner.

(36:57) I ran bases. (36:58) And when we got in trouble, we had to run bases. (37:01) So I really tied running with hate.

(37:05) Well, that year, I went to the Junior Olympics. (37:09) And I play second on that podium. (37:11) But I didn’t know how to run.

(37:14) So I was running with my dad after track practicing getting coaching, there was a lot of change, I changed my diet, I changed my weight, I had never run in those kind of spikes. (37:28) So my, you know, my calves weren’t prepared for that. (37:31) And I was this scrawny little whatever 100 pound person.

(37:37) And so realize there’s going to be suck through whatever journey you’re on, whether it’s career or sports professional, and lean into the stock and be open to the pivot. (37:52) And don’t kind of set in this victim. (37:55) You know, why me?

(37:57) Why does everybody else have it easier? (37:59) Because none of us really have it easier. (38:01) Some of us are sharing it, and others are sharing it privately.

(38:07) And it’s really a journey and these small micro breaks, and these small check ins and making sure that you’re aligned with who you’re really becoming. (38:20) Because, you know, I had to set a lot of checks and balances and measuring my progress and to really recharge myself as I went to become a runner. (38:32) And so I think, you know, maybe for you, like what’s one small daily ritual that has helped you reset as you’re growing?

Carlee

(38:45) I think for me, a ritual that I’m working on right now is the reminder of actually in that moment, like I am working on something, and it’s okay. (38:53) So the reframe is, well, where am I making progress? (38:56) What’s the one thing that I made progress on today?

(38:59) And I love that we’re digging into the image, I just want to like double down on the in between. (39:06) One thing that I share a lot of is that in between like reflections of that, the messy middle, you and I in this conversation have probably been talking about maybe the lessons and the output of that. (39:20) So even here, like I love that you just gave that story, because we haven’t dug totally into at least on my side of like those in betweens.

(39:28) But everything we’re talking about is a reflection of the in between and saying, hey, this got real messy for me, this got real hard for me. (39:36) And so here’s an offering and a way to think about it so that you can accelerate your messy middle and have some frames or language or thinking to navigate. (39:47) And I hope that’s been that’s been helpful.

(39:50) But I’ll go, you know, it’s just one, it’s one thing at a time, focusing on that one positive.

Melissa

(39:55) And I think about like, track spikes are very different than softball spikes. (40:02) And just different than pivoting your career. (40:05) But what, what do you take from one to the next, right?

(40:09) Even if you’re it’s a complete wash start over, you know, I still took a lot of the things I learned as a softball player that helped me become a track player. (40:20) But I still had to learn, you know, softball is a team sport. (40:24) Track is also a team sport, but it’s an individual sport.

(40:27) So I, I had to switch my hats a bit. (40:29) And I challenge everybody to, to think about when you’re taking those step back, really sit back and think about what did my previous journey teach me that’s going to help me and my future self. (40:45) And so really getting clear about those really will help you move quicker on that journey.

(40:52) And so I want to get Carly any final thoughts or anything we touched on today that you want to leave with our listeners before we close up?

Carlee

(41:02) Yeah, I’m gonna like triple underscore the word curiosity, because I think we’re landing in that space to have, you’re talking about the from to have what can I take with me? (41:11) That to me is a curiosity question. (41:13) We talked a lot about what’s coming and where can I go with that?

(41:16) I’m going to mention the taking one step at a time for yourself. (41:20) And it’s the routine of making sure you’re also giving yourself that affirmation of yes, maybe today was a little messy in that step. (41:27) But here’s something that worked well for me.

(41:29) And the last thing just, you know, continuing to explore yourself as a personal business, the things that matter to you, and having that plan which to get there. (41:39) And one thing we didn’t talk about a lot today, but I really want to emphasize is also like, what do you value and who you are, that is something to your point that you’re always going to carry with you. (41:49) So we talked a lot about skills and experience, we didn’t talk about like the inner Who am I, and know that there’s power in that.

(41:56) And that’s also going to keep moving, moving you forward. (41:59) So I’m excited for people, this is a really interesting time of reinvention of new of next. (42:06) And hopefully some of this stuff has been has been helpful.

(42:09) And I really appreciate the conversation.

Melissa

(42:11) I love it. (42:12) Now, what is the best way to and for our listeners to connect with you and learn more about the good work you’re doing?

Carlee

(42:20) Yeah, two ways. (42:20) So LinkedIn, always happy to connect. (42:22) I mentioned I share a lot of the the middleness with with folks, so feel free to reach out there.

(42:27) I also have a website, asanarrowconsulting.com.

Melissa

(42:31) I love it. (42:33) Carly, thank you so much for being here and sharing your knowledge with our listeners. (42:38) That’s the Executive Connect podcast.