In this episode of Executive Connect, host Melissa Aarskaug sits down with Zaina Orbai, executive coach and former senior leader who helped take both Yelp and The RealReal public, to talk about the emotional programming that quietly shapes leadership, ambition, perfectionism, and reinvention. Zaina shares what happens when high-achieving women hit an inflection point, why old patterns stop working, and how internal beliefs around worth, control, and success can quietly hold leaders back.

This conversation is for anyone who looks successful on the outside but feels stretched, stuck, or disconnected on the inside. Zaina offers a grounded look at how leaders can build more self-awareness, create better internal alignment, and redefine success in a way that is actually sustainable.

Chapters:
(0:00) The hidden chaos behind success
(1:22) What happens at leadership inflection points
(4:24) The cost of internal misalignment
(5:28) Why perfectionism is hard to define
(6:24) What emotional programming really means
(9:05) Lessons from taking companies public
(12:14) What surprised her most about IPOs
(13:31) What she would tell her younger self
(14:15) How success can distort identity
(16:44) Energy leadership and thought patterns
(20:19) How to handle stressed-out leaders
(22:11) Shifting energy in hard conversations
(23:53) Reprogramming the inner CEO
(26:33) Why leaders fear slowing down
(28:31) Daily shifts that create internal change
(33:02) Why emotional intelligence matters more now
(37:04) Rapid-fire leadership truths
(39:42) Final advice for women in reinvention

Zaina

(0:00) What surprised me the most, there’s still a lot of uncertainty. (0:03) I think, you know, the idea is like, I think people go, oh my gosh, in hindsight, it like all looks so beautiful, packaged, clear, you know, it’s like, no, the week before, we weren’t sure we were going out. (0:18) Two days before, this happened, this happened.

(0:21) And I think people don’t realize behind the scenes, there is so many fires and chaos and mess that you’re just learning and, you know, that are coming up as things are going at that speed.

Melissa

(0:34) Entrepreneurs love to talk strategy, scaling and success stories, but not so much the emotional programming that’s running behind. (0:43) My guest Zaina Orbai helps leaders rewrite that inner code. (0:47) After 20 years in executive roles, including helping take both Yelp and The Real Real Public, that’s a tongue twister.

(0:58) She learned that your next big breakthrough probably isn’t a new business model, it’s emotional awareness. (1:06) If you’ve ever hit every emotional milestone, but still felt stuck on the inside, this conversation is going to hit home for you. (1:15) Welcome Zaina.

(1:17) Thank you, Melissa.

Zaina

(1:19) I’m excited to be here.

Melissa

(1:22) I’m excited to talk to you. (1:23) Now, you’ve worked with so many accomplished leaders who seem to have it all together from the outside. (1:30) What are some of the internal patterns or blocks that show up most often when they reach a career inflection point?

Zaina

(1:39) Yeah, a lot of my work is with women and who are at the top of their field, accomplished, successful. (1:46) When they are hitting an inflection point, essentially that old operating system just stops working. (1:54) They’re just totally stuck.

(1:56) What just happened? (1:59) From the outside, these leaders look successful and confident and controlling. (2:04) A lot of times when people come to me, I’m like, why is it that you need a coach?

(2:08) And so, but internally what’s happened is the old patterns are now running on protection and safety rather than like, what is it that I want next? (2:20) And I think the most common, some of the common patterns I notice are there’s this deep identification to achievement. (2:34) And this fear, if I slow down, am I going to be worthy enough?

(2:39) If I don’t perform at the same pace or at the same level, how will others think? (2:48) Am I too old? (2:49) Am I no longer relevant?

(2:52) Oh my gosh, I have such a responsibility to hold this image for myself and others. (2:57) I have to do it alone. (2:59) And in many ways, being fiercely independent ends up being a pattern that holds you back, even though maybe it served you in sort of kind of younger years.

(3:09) And so I think while they’ve mastered sort of outer success, a lot of times they haven’t spent time really paying attention to the internal signals, right? (3:21) Things like intuition, self-belief, trust. (3:24) What do I really want?

(3:26) My true desires. (3:28) And all of those are somewhere under heavy judgment. (3:33) And so really inflection points, I think are a beautiful kind of crack, I say, like an inventation for people to reprogram away from sort of pressure to like presence, from kind of control to clarity, from sort of deferring their gifts and talents to really owning them.

(3:55) I think ownership ends up being a big piece of it as well. (4:02) But those are some of the things that come up in my work with women.

Melissa

(4:09) Ready to lead smarter and invest wiser? (4:13) On the Executive Connect podcast, we unpack executive strategies for wealth and influence. (4:20) Hit the subscribe button now.

(4:22) Don’t just watch, act. (4:24) Now, what’s the cost of staying externally successful like you were mentioning, but actually internally misaligned?

Zaina

(4:34) Well, it’s not sustainable in the end, right? (4:37) And so if you’re doing it somewhere along the line, it’s draining you, it’s chipping you. (4:43) You’re sort of burning more than you need to rather than really building.

(4:48) And when you’re building and energizing, you’re using wisdom, synthesis, passion, joy, and all that becomes in some ways compounds over time versus I think if you’re focused externally only, which many times that serves us in the early years, but it starts to not be sustainable as we get into things we really want later in life.

Melissa

(5:17) I love that. (5:19) Now, how does perfectionism quietly sabotage leadership growth? (5:23) I’m curious to get your perspective as a recovering perfectionist.

Zaina

(5:28) Yeah, I mean, everyone’s got different things. (5:31) Perfectionism, I mean, for sure. (5:34) It’s like the…

(5:35) I think it shows it differently for folks. (5:40) For perfectionism, it’s like you have to go back to what is perfect. (5:44) It’s like, is it what my parents said was perfect?

(5:48) Is it what my friends think are perfect? (5:51) Is it what LinkedIn says is perfect? (5:54) So perfect in itself actually is also…

(5:57) There is no perfect, right? (5:58) It’s sort of how we define it. (6:00) And so that also becomes layered that like, what is it?

(6:06) And so how is that either serving you or not? (6:10) For some people, perfect is like high quality, which isn’t a negative thing. (6:15) For others, it’s like, well, I’m always going to be disappointed.

(6:18) So yeah, I would say that alone is there’s layers underneath that.

Melissa

(6:24) Yeah, I love that. (6:26) Now, when you talk about emotional programming, leaders sometimes don’t fully understand what that means. (6:35) So can you unpack what does emotional programming actually mean and how can someone recognize it’s running the show?

Zaina

(6:44) Yeah. (6:45) And so when I talk about emotional programming, I’m not referring to just like soft emotions. (6:51) I’m like, I’m just happy, sad, excited.

(6:54) Essentially, there are the internal rules that drive how we behave, especially under pressure, right? (7:01) It’s like the sort of set of automatic responses. (7:05) We say like every thought has an emotion, which ties to an action or no action.

(7:11) And I think the way when we go into leadership, it’s rarely, at least at the most senior levels, the challenge isn’t lack of capability. (7:21) People know what they need to get done, how they need to get done, but there’s something else that’s getting in the way. (7:28) And so when I say that like the inner CEO is operating on old rules or outdated patterns, I think that the simplest and the earliest indicator is when we call it shooting on.

(7:44) So I should do this. (7:47) I need to do this. (7:48) I have to do this.

(7:50) I can’t do this. (7:51) And so all of those come from a place of like powerlessness. (7:55) There’s a bit of like mentality that like someone else has made the decision and therefore I have to live up to it rather than I want this.

(8:05) And so I think a lot of times we don’t even realize it, but we’re living a life that we sort of should need and have, which is sort of someone else’s life and not our own. (8:18) And so I think it’s a journey for people to really go, wait a second. (8:23) Yeah, I can’t believe I’ve just, I’ve been doing this because I should have.

(8:26) So I always, I think that’s the earliest indicators of like, wait a second, like time to figure out what is it you want.

Melissa

(8:35) So true. (8:36) And the programming comes from so many different places these days. (8:42) Like I, it’s not just our family or our careers, it’s culture or it’s things we’ve picked up along the way.

(8:49) And so sometimes it’s just identifying it and, and really, like you said, I love the shooting. (8:56) I think that’s so funny. (8:57) Every time I hear it, I think it’s so funny.

(8:59) I agree. (8:59) It’s well said. (9:01) So I want to talk about the IPOs.

(9:05) So you help two companies go public, huge, huge, huge milestone by any measure, not one, but two. (9:15) How do those experiences reshape your understanding of leadership, identity, and the emotional toll of success?

Zaina

(9:26) Oh, that’s a big question. (9:29) I guess first I’d start off with, I don’t think corporations are like the enemy. (9:35) I do think they are intense, kind of like group laboratories, I guess you could say in an IPO, there’s even more intensity because it’s fast paced, high velocity, more uncertainty or any startup, I guess you could say that too.

(9:51) And so I actually find corporations or teams, organizations, it’s kind of like a (9:57) playground to really like, get clear on like who you are and like develop and grow, you know, (10:04) and maybe it’s not necessarily designed for that purpose, but it can be if you see it from that (10:09) lens, you know, because you’re bringing in all these personalities, ambition, power dynamics, (10:15) pressure at scale, and there’s this sort of, you’ve got to consistently, you know, perform, (10:21) hit the numbers.

(10:23) And so for me, I think it was some of my sort of, just rapid growth years, because you have to, and I say in like high intense environments or high growth companies, you have to be learning at a faster rate than the company is growing, right? (10:43) And so I used to hire for a higher learn rate than the growth rate. (10:48) And so you’re constantly having to challenge your own sort of internal narratives, you know, things like how you handle pressure, how you handle failure, how you handle success, how you handle authority, how do you sort of, how, what is your identity outside of your title, you know, and all these things.

(11:08) And so, yeah, so for me, I think I, maybe what surprised me the most was, I think the emotional toll of success, you know, it’s often where sort of external achievement sort of has outpaced kind of like our internal capacity, and we’ve sort of lost how to sort of kind of manage the two. (11:31) And so that’s where a lot of my now work is, is okay, you’re in an intense environment, go for it, you’re building, you’re taking bigger risks, you’re going bold, I love that, but what do you need to sort of shift internally, so you can sustain that, you know, and show up, you know, through that, through that journey, stronger as well. (11:54) And so yeah, I think they were really some, I wouldn’t do it again, but they were, they were definitely defining moments, let’s just say, in sort of my own personal growth.

Melissa

(12:08) I love it. (12:09) Now, what surprised you the most about the IPO process?

Zaina

(12:14) What surprised me the most, there’s still a lot of uncertainty. (12:18) I think, you know, the idea is like, I think people go, oh, my gosh, in hindsight, it like all looks so beautiful, packaged clear, you know, it’s like, no, the week before, we weren’t sure we were going out two days before this happened, this happened. (12:37) And I think people don’t realize behind the scenes, there is so many fires and chaos and mess that you’re, you’re learning and you know, that are coming up as things are going at that speed.

(12:49) And so when I do these sort of IPO talks, and share examples, people are always surprised. (12:54) You’re like, wait, that’s what was happening behind the scenes. (12:57) And it’s true when you talk to anyone in the IPO process.

(12:59) So yeah, I think it’s, yeah, I think it’s a messy, chaotic, you know, process that also is fun. (13:09) So you have to kind of go in with like, we always say, well, we don’t laugh, we’re gonna cry. (13:14) But you know, and it’s only people celebrate it, because there’s this external success.

(13:20) And there’s all this wealth created. (13:21) But, yeah, I think, in the end, it’s, it’s like any hyper changing environment. (13:27) It’s got its own, you know, quirks.

Melissa

(13:31) Anything specific you would tell your younger executive self now?

Zaina

(13:38) Um, don’t take it so seriously. (13:41) Nobody has the answers. (13:43) Like, enjoy the ride.

Melissa

(13:46) Oh, I love it. (13:47) I used to, I have made me think back to getting all A’s in engineering school, nobody cares. (13:52) Don’t take it so seriously.

(13:54) Go to the concerts, do the thing.

Zaina

(13:57) Like, what do you sacrifice for what? (13:59) And then you go, wow, that didn’t really matter, did it?

Melissa

(14:02) Like, you know, those front row tickets to Metallica. (14:07) I don’t know. (14:08) I’m still regretting those 20 years later.

(14:11) You can’t go back. (14:12) You can’t go back.

Zaina

(14:13) You know?

Melissa

(14:15) Now, how do you think success challenge your sense of self?

Zaina

(14:20) How did success? (14:21) Well, success had to get redefined to, you know, I think when we have success, our ego sort of, I don’t know, gets bigger. (14:30) And then all of a sudden, you’re like, Oh, my God, this success is me.

(14:33) And then that success doesn’t stay forever. (14:36) You know, maybe the stock changes, maybe the company changes, maybe you’re whatever, you know, things change. (14:42) And all of a sudden, you’re like, Oh, my gosh, like, wait a second, if my worth was tied to that, and that’s gone, like, who am I?

(14:50) So I think it’s, you know, it’s, it’s a good humbling process to, I think, success, because you, if you get lost in it, and not get sort of like, it’s, it’s like temporary, like anything else. (15:04) So it’s good. (15:05) It’s good.

(15:05) I think it’s, it takes you on a roller coaster. (15:09) How about that? (15:09) I feel, you know, a humbling process.

(15:12) And then all of a sudden, you can sort of separate, create a separation of like, this is performance and achievement. (15:18) This is who I am. (15:19) And those two things are different.

Melissa

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(15:57) Learn more at Texas freedom fund.executiveconnect podcast.com energy opportunity and Texas grit working for your portfolio. (16:09) I love that. (16:11) I think when I wrote my book, redefining success, I, I often feel like we’re constantly redefining success, the older we get, the more milestones we go through.

(16:22) And, you know, friend shifting, job shifting, our parents aging our kids, you know, going from toddlers to teenagers. (16:30) We’re definitely, there’s a lot of redefining in those years and, um, career wise. (16:35) And so I just feel like it’s this constant kind of redefining what matters and what, what does it mean to us?

(16:41) And so I’m excited to talk to you. (16:44) You’ve trained in energy leadership coaching. (16:50) Help me understand that and how it changes the way you lead, communicate and make decisions under pressure.

Zaina

(16:59) Yeah. (16:59) Hope you understand that. (17:00) Well, I guess I would say, um, it’s a framework that basically, you know, there’s seven levels.

(17:07) We’re not going to go into the seven levels, but you take any thought, any thought that we have is tied to a feeling and therefore it’s tied to, uh, action. (17:17) And some thoughts were going to put us in a place where we’re not going to take any action. (17:22) There’s no energy, low energy, low energy, medium energy, and sort of high aligned energy where we’re just like firing and sort of all cylinders.

(17:31) And so I think a lot of times we don’t realize that we have these sort of thoughts playing in the background that we’re not even aware of that are draining us in some ways, taking us away from what we really want to do, um, rather than sort of thoughts that are just like propelling us forward. (17:50) And so the work is really bringing a more awareness for folks of like, what is your sort of typical thought patterns on a typical day? (17:59) What is it under stress?

(18:00) And what might you choose differently knowing that? (18:03) Like we were talking about that. (18:04) Wow.

(18:05) A lot of times we’re not even conscious of like the conditioning and the patterns. (18:10) And so similarly, um, and as you know, like some of these negative thought patterns multiply so fast, you know, um, and all of a sudden we’re like, we’re in doomsday land. (18:22) I’m not good enough.

(18:24) I’m not smart enough. (18:25) I’m too old, all these things. (18:27) And all of a sudden, like, how did you get there?

(18:30) You know? (18:31) Um, and so, yeah, so I think the work to simplify it, you know, there’s drainers and there’s energizers are on some spectrum and we can go from sort of being in a place of like really accessing our gifts and talents and sort of power to, uh, achieve or do what we want versus being on the other spectrum, right. (18:54) Of like, I can’t and, you know, for all the reasons and feeling powerlessness.

(19:00) Um, and, you know, sometimes, um, I coach women and they’re in the middle, which is like, well, it’s not great. (19:06) And it’s not bad because maybe, you know, they’ve kind of come out of something that was worse. (19:12) It’s good enough, but they’re not happy.

(19:14) Right. (19:14) And the good enough is in some ways, you know, it’s a little bit dangerous because you’ve kind of tricked yourself with like, yeah, good enough is, you know, and, um, it’s this bit of like, and I tell people, well, what if, you know, like you can’t stay there forever. (19:30) You’re either going to get dipped down or you got to move up and let’s, let’s, let’s dig into that.

(19:35) Um, and so, uh, cause no one wants to live a life just good enough. (19:40) Um, so yeah, I think it’s, it’s, um, it brings more conscious, um, awareness to how we are living our lives based on what thoughts we’re playing in the background.

Melissa

(19:53) Yeah. (19:53) I’d love to get your perspective on this. (19:55) I have had some very high stressed out leaders in my career that would blaze and stress the entire team out and then blaze out.

(20:06) So for all those people that work for someone that is transmitting stress to their teams and then they have to manage their teams when they leave, like what, what advice would you give them?

Zaina

(20:19) What advice would I give them? (20:21) Well, um, I guess in the end it’s like, do they have an opportunity to respond versus react? (20:28) Right.

(20:28) Because there’s going to be people in our lives. (20:30) I mean, family, professional, whatever, where they’re, you know, we call it sort of catabolic energy. (20:35) There’s sort of always in this like anger, resentment and fight.

(20:39) I got to just blast everybody blame. (20:42) Right. (20:42) And they’re, you know, uh, for all the reasons that they’re in that space.

(20:47) And so how do you then sort of see that person going, okay, well, they’re in this state. (20:53) I can either choose to sort of just kind of merge into that state or create a little bit of a buffer and boundary of say, okay, let me, let me create a little bit of separation here. (21:04) Um, and I know that’s not always easy because we all have people in our lives that, you know, like they put us from zero to a hundred so fast.

(21:13) Um, but, um, but yeah, I think the more you can separate that sort of, and that’s some of the work too, with the energy stuff is not just your own, that you’re in a room and why is it that you’re not getting by? (21:24) And well, maybe someone’s really fear, fears AI. (21:27) Another person is curious about AI.

(21:29) Someone is, you know, thinks it could help others, right? (21:32) Like everyone’s got, I’m using AI because there’s so much controversy around AI, but, um, but yeah, I guess it’s my advice would be to sort of name it and frame it in the sense of you see them in that state, but that doesn’t need to be, um, a state that you need to automatically fall into, right? (21:53) Can you choose differently and respond differently to that other person?

(21:58) Um, so, which I, you know, I realized is take some, take some boundary setting, right? (22:05) Boundary setting. (22:06) And, um, especially if it’s your boss, I think it’s even harder.

Melissa

(22:11) Yeah. (22:11) Just practice. (22:12) Right.

(22:12) And I think I’m curious, like a lot of things I’ve been hearing, uh, last, last part of the year is people are having these really tough conversations at work or at home. (22:24) So how can leaders shift energy in real time during these really tough conversations that they’re having?

Zaina

(22:34) Well, um, I think it’s where, where are you coming from? (22:40) Like, is it, are you coming from a place of openness, curiosity, acceptance, um, trust, or are you coming from a place of blame, fear, resentment, resentment, right? (22:52) And you can imagine if one person shifts in a two-person dialogue, the conversation shifts, right?

(23:00) And so there could be one person who’s coming in all fiery and angry and resentment, but if the other person is like, okay, I see you accept that you’re angry and whatnot, and shows up maybe a bit differently, it’s going to change the outcome of that conversation. (23:16) And I think people forget that, how much power there is, even one person in a five-person group in a 12-person team on a board, it takes one to sort of shift, you know, the conversation. (23:29) Um, and so I think, um, I think people underestimate that, that they show up and how they frame the conversation, what they say can shift the conversation, the room, the dynamic, um, just by the way they show up.

Melissa

(23:46) Yeah. (23:47) I love that. (23:48) Let’s talk a little bit about reprogramming the inner CEO.

(23:53) So founders often operate in a constant go, go, go drive mode until things don’t drive anymore. (24:01) Uh, so what are some practical ways that leaders can reprogram their mindsets without losing their edge?

Zaina

(24:10) Yeah. (24:10) I mean, um, first of all, I want to say reprogramming isn’t about removing drive. (24:15) You know, I think a lot of times we’re like, you know, I have founders that say, well, don’t tell me to do less, you know?

(24:20) And it’s like, well, I haven’t said that maybe, maybe you are looking to seek that, but, um, but it’s really, um, I think it’s, uh, when we’re talking about reprogramming this drive, it’s like, where’s that drive coming from? (24:33) Am I working really hard because I’m scared of failure? (24:37) Am I working really hard because I want perfection?

(24:40) Am I, you know, and is it, is it coming from a place of, um, an inner critic, imposter syndrome, judgment, fear, or is it coming because like, I, this is what I want to be doing and here’s why. (24:53) And, and so I think it’s really figuring out what is the source of, of this drive. (24:59) Um, and of course they are operating with, you know, urgency and pressure, but I think it’s starting to separate, you know, kind of the intensity of like, what’s the source?

(25:13) How important is it? (25:14) Um, and the other piece is like redefining like edge, right? (25:18) Like edge isn’t necessarily exhaustion.

(25:21) Sometimes when we’re at the edge of something, it sharpens our clarity. (25:25) It makes us make bold decisions that we wouldn’t unless we were on the edge. (25:31) Um, it helps us sort of like, um, yeah, I think like it’s, I would say, so it’s not necessarily, um, think of edges exhaustion, but yeah, I think there’s that.

(25:44) And the other thing I would say is like recovery and reflection. (25:48) No one can sort of live on sort of their growth edges all the time or in a company that’s always on edge. (25:55) And so what’s kind of the operating rhythm in a day or a week or call it a month where it’s like, okay, you’re on the edge, you make that high stake move, you make that decision, you raise that fund.

(26:07) And then where do you, then where do you start to go into sort of a bit of a recovery reflection mode? (26:12) And then how do you respond to the, to the next bit? (26:16) But, um, but overall it’s discipline.

(26:18) I mean, I was just talking to a founder, she’s like, oh my God, I’m like, you know, staying up till two waking up at 4.00 AM. (26:24) And then it was like, oh, I need, I need better discipline. (26:26) Right.

(26:27) Uh, on what, what really matters. (26:29) So anyway, those are some of the things that come to mind.

Melissa

(26:33) I was just thinking about that. (26:34) Um, funny you mentioned that. (26:36) So why do leaders fear slowing down even when it’s hurting their performance?

Zaina

(26:42) Why do leaders fear slowing down even if it’s hurting their performance? (26:50) Oh, um, well, they probably have some beliefs around speed wins. (26:58) Um, um, you know, it’s sort of like, you’ve always got to, uh, outpace your competition.

(27:07) Right. (27:07) And so I think you have to get down to the are you working so hard if it’s not really helping well, you know, and so speed wins is a common one that founders have is like, and it also comes a lot of times from investors. (27:23) Like we, you know, if you sort of, what does it burn the midnight oil, you get success, right.

(27:29) When that’s not necessarily the case. (27:32) So, um, yeah, yeah. (27:34) Put in the reps, put in the hours.

(27:37) Um, but I think even if you just think about sports and working out, there’s always time where you have to like, you put in the reps and then you gotta, you know, let the muscles recover. (27:46) And then you’ve got to, you know, it has to be an ebb and flow. (27:49) Um, and I think, um, founders forget that as well.

Melissa

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(28:14) And as a listener of the executive connect podcast, you can get it completely free. (28:19) Just visit money ripples.com forward slash secrets and enter the promo code E X E C. (28:31) Now, are there some small daily shifts that they could leverage that would give the biggest internal changes for them?

(28:44) Is there something that they can do that’s maybe, you know, smaller that they it’s, you know, cause like you were saying, everything is go, go, go. (28:52) It’s like one drive. (28:53) But over time we know we talk about this a lot of leads to burnout, right?

(28:58) If we just go, go. (29:00) And we’re like you said, we’re going to bed at two o’clock or we’re waking up at four. (29:04) Well, you can’t do how many of those, you know, nights of two hours of sleep and how many hours of caffeine before you’re kind of burnt out.

(29:11) So there are, there’s small shifts that they can make in the day to day that would create the best change internally.

Zaina

(29:21) I mean, I think it’s coming down with what part of the day do you slow down? (29:24) Um, right. (29:25) And for some people that might be walking your dog for some people, it might be yoga for some people, you know, whatever it is.

(29:34) It’s some form of like exercise meditation, you know, but what part of the day could be 30 minutes. (29:40) That’s fine. (29:41) I mean, even 10 minutes would be helpful, but what part of the day where you’re really slowing down your thoughts, um, and probably a lot of times moving your body, you know, if you’re pretty stationary.

(29:54) Um, so I would say the simplest would be go find an activity that is not tied to work, um, and do that for 30 minutes a day. (30:02) And that alone, I think gives space for your brain to recover and, um, just some space, but yeah, like intentionally, you know, some people journal, but journal again, you’re kind of in your thoughts. (30:16) So the idea is like, you’ve got to like wipe those thoughts and whatever that rock climbing, right?

(30:21) Whatever, whatever’s going to get you focused on, um, slowing down your thoughts, um, on a daily basis, I think can be more powerful than people realize.

Melissa

(30:34) I absolutely, I see this for myself over and over. (30:38) I started practicing yoga. (30:40) I don’t know what 23 years ago or something like that.

(30:43) And, you know, I was just focusing on the practice, focusing on my breathing. (30:48) And it’s funny after the morning practices in the afternoon, I’d be full of ideas and I didn’t do anything, but just clear my mind and focus on moving my body. (30:57) And so I think there’s so much truth in that, that, um, our brain can’t be on always, all the time.

(31:05) And back to kind of the energy discussion, you might, you, you want sustained energy, not just, you know, how do you explain it? (31:16) Like the fight or flight kind of energy all the time. (31:19) Um, absolutely.

Zaina

(31:20) And I think, um, you know, if you go into sort of like consciousness and so forth that, you know, they say like, you know, the mind sort of tricks us that like, we’re always thinking and we’re ruminating and replaying and worrying about the future, replaying the past ruminating. (31:35) And we trick ourselves that we’re like doing something, but actually it’s like a couple layers below where we really process and we’re creative and we’re storing and sort of building. (31:45) And so that layer between those two is like when we’re in our body and senses, whether it’s yoga, breathing, whatever exercise, you know?

(31:54) Um, and so if you can kind of quiet your mind from the ruminating, replaying, worrying, and sort of just for a period of time, get into your body, then you start actually getting to the place where you’re actually like, you know, doing interesting work with your mind, which is like the processing sort of part of the, the bit. (32:14) So, um, yeah, which, you know, again, we trick ourselves into like, oh my gosh, I’m doing something. (32:20) Cause I’m thinking about it.

(32:21) It’s like, no, you’ve been replaying that thought for like two hours, you know, like it hasn’t created more opportunity, uh, by sitting there. (32:29) So maybe you gotta like create some space. (32:32) So yeah.

(32:33) Um, but, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s kind of like, yeah, I think we’re having to like be conscious of that is, um, to your point of daily practice. (32:41) Right.

Melissa

(32:43) I love that. (32:44) Uh, cause that used to be me. (32:45) I was one of those people until I figured out that.

(32:48) So ruminating replaying thought I should have said this, I should have done that. (32:52) And it’s a vicious cycle. (32:54) So it kind of leads into what I want to talk about is you’re a strong advocate for diverse, uh, diversity and leadership.

(33:02) How does emotional intelligence shape stronger, more inclusive, more resilient organizations?

Zaina

(33:11) Yeah. (33:12) I mean, I think, um, it’s so interesting because, um, with all this sort of artificial, um, AI stuff, um, I think emotional intelligence is going to become even more and more important, right? (33:24) Because like the data and the technical and the repeatable, all that stuff, um, AI can do, and it’s going to do even more.

(33:32) And so I think, um, to me, emotional intelligence is what, um, what is unseen, um, or hidden in the room. (33:45) Right. (33:46) Um, so if you’re saying a meeting, um, what, what are things, what are the dynamics, you know, who feels safe to speak, who doesn’t, whose ideas are getting traction, what’s the power dynamics, where’s their biases, what’s not being said that needs to be said, right.

(34:05) That’s going to be the breakthrough for innovation or, you know, create, you know, speed of execution. (34:12) And, um, AI is not going to be able to do that. (34:15) Um, and emotional intelligence is where it comes in.

(34:18) So I think it’s going to be a strategic, I mean, I think it’s going to be kind of the game changer between like great leaders and sort of leaders that are just, you know, becoming in some ways, um, yeah, more, um, dispensable. (34:37) Uh, and so, yeah. (34:38) So to me, emotional intelligence uncovers the blind spots of things that are sort of hidden or unseen that are critical to kind of come to the surface, um, which diversity is one of them, but you can think of it in sort of any capacity or team or idea or business model as well.

Melissa

(35:02) I think some of the best solutions to problems I’ve had in my career came from the least likely of person to, to come up with them. (35:10) And it was because they were very diverse in their perspectives. (35:15) And I find that to your point, we’re so transactional, we’re all doing and doing and going and going and driving to something that things like empathy and, you know, understanding and, you know, allowing people to say, you know, Hey, I got to come to work a little late.

(35:32) I got to take my kid to whatever and, and feeling safe to do that. (35:37) And, and their leader being empathetic to allow them to do that. (35:41) And so it’s very much.

(35:43) So I do think, um, you know, feeling people’s emotions and understanding them and having emotional intelligence is going to be so key.

Zaina

(35:54) So key, so key. (35:55) Cause I think, um, that’s where sort of like a, to your point, you know, um, we’re sort of the, the, the most creative kind of answers lie to sort of the, what, you know, what sort of moves us forward.

Melissa

(36:09) Yeah. (36:10) I had a janitor that for a company that I, I was trying to, I worked for solve a problem with how my, how I was doing things and he was not technical at all. (36:21) And I was just talking to him because that’s my personality.

(36:25) And he solved something for me that was unbelievable just because he was listening and paying attention to me. (36:33) And so I was open to receiving the feedback and, you know, he solved their problem for me. (36:39) And, um, funny enough, he took a different role.

(36:43) Um, the more that he continued to solve different problems within the company. (36:48) So it’s funny how that, um, works out. (36:51) I wanted to see if we could do some rapid fire questions and just quick questions as we close out, tell me one word that defines your inner CEO.

Zaina

(37:04) Oh, one word that defines my inner CEO. (37:09) Gosh, I would say ambitious.

Melissa

(37:13) I love it. (37:16) The emotion, let’s see an emotion leaders should avoid the most. (37:23) Hmm.

(37:24) Uh, disappointment. (37:27) Oh, I like it. (37:29) One habit that quietly drained leaders judgment.

(37:35) What does success feel like when it’s aligned?

Zaina

(37:41) I was going to say ecstasy, but maybe that sounds kind of too, too. (37:45) I don’t know. (37:46) Just great.

(37:47) How about that? (37:49) I love it. (37:50) Oh gosh.

(37:50) This is a good one. (37:51) IPO pressure in one word. (37:54) Oh my God.

(37:55) IPO pressure in one word. (37:58) Um, frantic.

Melissa

(38:01) Right. (38:01) I love it. (38:02) Um, let me think a belief you had to unlearn.

Zaina

(38:07) Hmm. (38:07) Belief I had to unlearn. (38:10) God, there’s so many, but I’m thinking what’s a good one.

(38:14) Well, maybe that’s one that, uh, um, you never get there. (38:23) You know, people are like, Oh, who do you want to be? (38:25) Who do you want to become?

(38:26) It’s like, why do we have to like decide that, you know? (38:29) So you never get there. (38:31) Wherever you go, you never get there.

Melissa

(38:33) So true. (38:34) So true. (38:35) Thank goodness.

(38:35) Right. (38:36) Then life would be so boring. (38:39) The hardest emotion to sit with.

Zaina

(38:43) Hardest emotion to sit with grief. (38:47) Oh yes.

Melissa

(38:49) Uh, energy you protect the most. (38:52) Oh, peace. (38:55) Oh, I love that one.

(38:57) Finish this sentence. (38:59) My best leadership emerged when I Oh, hit rock bottom fails. (39:09) Oh yes.

(39:10) So true. (39:12) One sign someone needs inner work. (39:16) Um, shitting they’re shitting on.

(39:19) They’re living a life of shits. (39:20) I love it. (39:21) We totally have to end with a shitting.

(39:23) That’s so good. (39:24) I love it. (39:26) This conversation was so insightful and deeply relevant in our world today.

(39:31) Please share with our listeners the best way to connect with you and learn more about the good work you’re doing. (39:38) And then maybe any final thoughts that you want to leave with our listeners.

Zaina

(39:42) Yeah. (39:43) I think the best way is to email me zaina.orba at Gmail or connect with me on LinkedIn. (39:50) Um, you know, my work is really, I work with accomplished women who are going through reinvention, right?

(39:56) They are, they’ve lived a life for a couple of decades. (39:59) Now they want something different. (40:01) They want something more.

(40:02) They want to take more risk. (40:03) And so their old identities here and their new identities here. (40:06) Now they’re like, how do I get there?

(40:09) You know, and I’m feeling stuck. (40:10) Um, and so that’s where a lot of my work, um, lies and closing thoughts. (40:16) Gosh, I just, um, I really enjoyed this, Melissa.

(40:19) I thought it was great. (40:20) And, and my closing thought is like, if you’re feeling stuck, like reach out, reach out to someone. (40:26) If it’s not me, someone else, I think too many women suffer that.

(40:30) Oh my gosh. (40:31) Like it must be me or I have to like be the super women and suffer, you know, on my own or forget on my own. (40:38) And ironically, it’s the independence that sort of holds us back later in life.

(40:44) Um, so like you don’t have to do it alone. (40:47) You know, there’s people that have done it that are there that are, you know, whether it’s advisors, coaches. (40:54) So, um, yeah, I love it.

Melissa

(40:57) This has been great. (40:58) I echo you. (40:59) Thank you so much for being here today and sharing your time.

(41:03) That’s the executive connect podcast.