Most team training fails because people forget 90% of what they just heard. That’s the #1 reason your team training isn’t working. In this episode of Executive Connect, Dr. Christie McMullen, best-selling author of Learning Can Stick and host of the Productive Joy podcast, reveals how to make learning last.

She explains her AIM method (analyze, improve, move), the sprinkle splash flood drip follow-through that drives retention, and the safe, logical, fun, and memorable framework that ensures your message actually sticks. If you’ve ever led a meeting or training that didn’t change behavior, this conversation is the playbook you need.

Chapters

• 00:00 Why most training doesn’t stick 
• 00:12 Meet Dr. Christie McMullen best selling author and podcast host 
• 01:11 Why adult learning principles matter at work 
• 02:44 The sprinkle splash flood drip method explained 
• 04:25 Why drip follow up drives real retention 
• 05:06 The AIM method analyze improve move 
• 06:22 Safe logical fun memorable overview 
• 07:01 Psychological safety what it looks like at work 
• 08:14 Clarity that prevents anxiety logical plans and clear asks 
• 09:06 One pagers and simple takeaways that drive action 
• 10:26 Why fun fuels productive joy at work 
• 11:59 Leader vulnerability and honoring unique genius 
• 13:37 The NASA Challenger lesson on unsafe cultures 
• 16:05 How to make presentations clear and effective 
• 17:35 Why skipping fun costs companies more 
• 18:34 Fun defined valued voice and using your talents 
• 21:13 Neurosignatures paperclip teddy bear magnifying glass slinky 
• 24:30 Building balanced teams with strengths 
• 24:54 Productive Joy podcast what it means and why it matters 
• 26:02 Common themes from 145 episodes on joy 
• 27:00 Creating flow and letting people test ideas 
• 28:09 Helping leaders teach better and live in unique genius 
• 29:54 Everyone is a leader practical self leadership examples 
• 30:40 Final challenge make work fun or people quit 
• 32:03 How to connect with Dr. Christie
  

Melissa

(0:00) Ever led a training, gave a killer pep talk, or coached a colleague only to watch it bounce off like a rubber chicken in a board meeting? (0:11) Well, not today. (0:12) On the Executive Connect podcast, we’re joined with Dr. Christy McMullen, best-selling author, adult learning guru, and host of the Productive Joy podcast. (0:25) With a doctorate in educational leadership and 25 years of experience helping teams at places like Aetna, REMAX, and RISE, she’s decoded the science of interactions that actually stick. (0:40) If you wanna turn meetings, messages, and moments into something safe, logical, fun, and memorable, Christy’s your guide. (0:51) Let’s aim to analyze, improve, and move towards powerful, productive connections.

(0:58) Welcome, Dr. Christy.

Christie

(1:01) Hi, Melissa, I am so excited for this opportunity. (1:04) And thank you for that really fun interview, or introduction, I guess that was an introduction.

Melissa

(1:11) Well, let’s talk a little bit about your background. (1:14) Now, you are making learning memorable instead of not memorable. (1:19) Now, what inspired you to focus so deeply on how adult learning and connections in the workplace can stick?

Christie

(1:29) Yeah, so for 25 years, I’ve been an educator. (1:32) But 19 of those years, I’ve been teaching adults. (1:35) And I discovered a few things that are true about all learning situations.

(1:39) And here’s the reality. (1:41) Every one of us is a teacher all day long. (1:43) Whether you like it or not, you’re teaching people things.

(1:45) But most people have never been taught how. (1:48) So as I was working with adults and figuring things out, I realized this translates into every business setting you could imagine. (1:55) But we don’t spend any time thinking about how is my message landing?

(1:59) Do people understand what they’re supposed to do with this information? (2:02) And most of the time, that’s what you want, but it’s not what you’re getting. (2:06) So I have been working with adults for all those years, figuring out how you can actually get your message to stick.

(2:13) I even wrote a book called Learning Can Stick. (2:15) And the idea behind it is if you don’t make it safe, logical, fun, and memorable, people just simply check out on you. (2:22) And so either get it right the first time or be prepared to do it multiple times.

(2:26) And nobody has time for that.

Melissa

(2:29) 100%, and I’m curious, because I know I heard this statistic once, and you might know it. (2:34) In a training, they say people retain like 10% or less of what somebody’s teaching. (2:40) Is that like a true, like true number?

Christie

(2:44) It is. (2:44) So there’s a lot of research around how people remember information. (2:48) And it has to do with what I call the sprinkle, splash, flood, drip, drip, drip concept.

(2:54) So what we tend to do is we flood people with information, right? (2:57) So we give them all of the information we want them to know on a Tuesday at three o’clock, and then we don’t revisit it at all. (3:04) And the problem with that is our brains can’t hold on.

(3:07) Like you said, it holds on to about 10%. (3:08) But if you sprinkle, splash, flood, drip, drip, drip the information, people will remember. (3:14) So I’m from Florida.

(3:15) And in Florida, when it rains, it means it. (3:18) And so the sprinkle, splash are those big giant drops that hit your windshield right before the sky opens up. (3:24) Well, that’s the preview to the movie, right?

(3:26) That’s the email before the training that says, hey, we’re gonna cover these three things. (3:31) Or before the meeting that says, hey, these are the four major points that we’re gonna cover. (3:36) Could you please think about what your role is in those points?

(3:39) The sprinkle, splash happens to tease people to get excited about the flood. (3:44) But then the flood happens. (3:45) That’s the meeting, the training, the event, whatever it might be.

(3:49) And when you flood information, like we’re doing right now with this podcast, people are gonna go, oh my gosh, that was a lot. (3:54) And they’re only gonna hold on to a couple things. (3:56) So the drip, drip, drip is what you do after the meeting, after the training, after the conference, where people get little nuggets that you wanted them to have again so that they can actually hold on to it.

(4:08) And the reason it’s three drips is because if you only do one, they still don’t get it. (4:12) So I’m gonna follow up with an email that says, here are the three things we talked about in the meeting, and here’s who will do what by when. (4:18) And then you do that two more times, with a phone call, with a face-to-face conversation, and that’s what actually makes learning stick.

(4:25) But we just don’t do that. (4:27) We do it once, and then we wonder why nobody got it. (4:30) Because our brains can’t hold on to it.

Melissa

(4:32) 100%, I know I’ve been probably part of hundreds of trainings, and we’ve never done that method. (4:37) It’s like we’re gonna talk on X subject, show up, take notes, and then you walk away with your page of notes, and sometimes you go back, and they’re really not clear with the takeaway. (4:48) So I know you’ve developed the AIM method, which is Analyze, Improve, Move.

(4:55) Can you walk us through what that looks like to take action and how leaders can turn everyday moments into actual growth opportunities that they can walk away with?

Christie

(5:06) Absolutely. (5:07) So the reality is that we spend a lot of time in the Analyze phase, right? (5:11) If you’re in a business, regardless, if a solopreneur situation, or you have 500 employees, we analyze the heck out of things, and we think about, okay, well, this worked well, this didn’t, but then we don’t change practice.

(5:22) We just say, all right, well, we know this information. (5:25) So the Analyze part is deciding what is my target? (5:29) What am I trying to accomplish with this particular meeting?

(5:32) In this particular meeting, I want people to do this, this, and this, whatever those thises are. (5:36) And so after you’ve analyzed, you have to improve your way of work. (5:40) And that’s where my Safe, Logical, Fun, and Memorable framework comes in.

(5:44) That’s delivering information in a way people can receive it. (5:48) That’s recognizing that if you say a meeting is supposed to be 15 minutes, it should be 15 minutes. (5:54) And then the Move is the part nobody does.

(5:56) So the reality is we don’t change practice because I tried that once in 1987, and it didn’t work. (6:03) It’s like, no, you actually have to do it 18 times in front of others to master it. (6:08) So you’ve gotta try it in Tuesday’s meeting and go, eh, some of it worked well, some of it didn’t.

(6:13) And then you have to do it again on Thursday and again the following week. (6:17) So the part that I really spend the bulk of my time with organizations on is the Improve. (6:22) Because as I mentioned, we’re all teachers, and yet many of us have never received any training in that space.

(6:29) So what we do is we work on the Safe, Logical, Fun, and Memorable. (6:34) Do you wanna hear what those mean?

Melissa

(6:36) Actually, I was gonna ask you about your, I know that you talk a lot about interactions needing to be Safe, Logical, Fun, Memorable. (6:44) But yeah, definitely tell us what that looks like and how somebody can do it right.

Christie

(6:49) Yeah, so there is a formula to it, right? (6:51) So the Safe is not about whether or not somebody’s gonna trip over a cord, right? (6:56) Like, yes, I want you to be physically safe, of course.

(6:58) But at work, we have to be psychologically safe. (7:01) Psychological safety is something that I’ve been trained in and see both happen and not happen in a lot of organizations. (7:08) It’s about, can I make mistakes?

(7:10) Can I ask questions? (7:11) Can I not know the answers? (7:13) Is that okay?

(7:15) And so making it psychologically safe is everything from knowing that your coworker has a dog that means the world to them and knowing the dog’s name, or just asking people, what is it that you need in order to learn from me? (7:27) Or what is it that you need to be comfortable in this situation? (7:31) We don’t ask, so we don’t know.

(7:33) So Safe is first. (7:34) And if you don’t make it safe, then nothing else can follow, right? (7:37) As a leader, you can’t get people to track with you unless you make it safe.

(7:41) The logical part, though, is the part that is often missing. (7:45) So I’m sure, Melissa, that you’ve never done this, but I’m also sure that somebody’s probably done it to you, okay? (7:50) Somebody has probably said to you at some point in your career, I need you in my office in an hour, right?

(7:57) What do you do for that hour? (7:58) What happens to you during that hour?

Melissa

(8:02) We overthink what may happen.

Christie

(8:04) Right, you’re in total panic. (8:06) Or if somebody, if a friend texts you, hey, can we talk? (8:10) Oh my gosh, yes, but what about?

(8:12) And how long is this gonna take? (8:13) And oh my goodness. (8:14) So the logical piece is that you have a plan, that you stick to the plan, but you’re not the only person who knows the plan.

(8:21) So as a leader, I need you in my office in an hour. (8:23) It’s to talk about the Smith file because the Smiths are coming in at two o’clock and I know you’ve been working with them directly. (8:29) That’s a fully and completely different hour.

(8:32) So the logical is that you’re sharing your plan with others, that you’re being thoughtful about here’s what I need from you, here’s what it looks like to be successful, and then maybe it’s even giving them a one pager. (8:43) So you mentioned notes earlier and we all take them in some form or another, right? (8:47) Thank God for AI and what it’s doing for us now because it takes beautiful notes, right?

(8:52) But the reality is if you don’t do anything with those notes, they’re a waste. (8:56) And most of the time, we didn’t know what to write down. (8:58) So I would advise if you’re doing, let’s say you’re doing a presentation at a conference for an hour, that you give people a one pager.

(9:06) That one pager has exactly what you want people to know as a takeaway. (9:10) It also has some room for them to take notes so that they leave, if they wrote nothing down, they leave with everything you wanted them to have, right? (9:18) So that’s logical.

(9:20) Logical means that you’re giving people what they need and you have that plan. (9:24) The fun is my favorite part. (9:26) So I do believe that if you don’t make work fun, people quit, period.

(9:30) And that’s actually the impetus for Productive Joy, which is my podcast. (9:34) The idea is that we quit things that aren’t fun. (9:38) So you don’t go to a movie a second time if you hated it the first time and you don’t go on a date a second time if you didn’t enjoy your first date, but we ask people to come back to work day after day after day, and it’s not fun.

(9:50) What would we expect of them? (9:53) Now, they’re either gonna quit quit, like leave, or they’re gonna quiet quit, which is worse. (9:58) They’re gonna stay, but they’re not gonna be productive.

(10:00) So the reason fun is so important is our brains only fire neurons when there’s some sort of emotion tied to what we’re doing. (10:09) But what we tend to do is we evoke zero emotion and we just say go, and we wonder why people aren’t tracking with us. (10:16) It’s because they don’t feel anything, right?

(10:17) Like if I don’t feel anything with you, I’m not gonna remember what you did. (10:21) And that’s neurological. (10:21) That’s not just because Christy said it’s fun.

(10:24) It’s because if we’re not having fun, we don’t remember. (10:27) And then the last piece is that you have to be memorable. (10:30) And we talked about sprinkle, splash, flood, drip, drip, drip.

(10:33) If we’re not doing that, then people can’t track with us. (10:36) So that’s improved. (10:37) That’s what I do with organizations to say, what are you doing to make it safe?

(10:41) And we might spend a whole day on safe. (10:43) Or what are you doing to make it logical or fun or memorable? (10:47) And what happens is they change practice, which is what we want, right?

(10:51) That’s the move.

Melissa

(10:53) Yeah, and I think a safe, like we all put on, I call it armor. (10:57) Like we show up to our job and we put on our armor and we don’t wanna share who we are and what’s going on in our life for fear of judgment or we’re not gonna get the promotion. (11:09) And so I think that first one is really interesting to me because I think a lot of times, and maybe it was just me, but I felt like in my 20s, I was in armor all through my 20s.

(11:20) And I couldn’t show up to work and really be my authentic self. (11:25) I had my armor on because I didn’t want people to think I wasn’t capable or knowledgeable enough or old enough. (11:33) And so I think the first one, when I’m thinking about safety, I’m curious to get your perspective.

(11:41) Like how could somebody show up in a way, like what’s an example of a way, maybe somebody doesn’t feel safe at their work or a leader that’s listening that wants to make sure their staff feels safe. (11:54) Like is there like a tip or a trick that they can use to just start there?

Christie

(11:59) I think as a leader, the number one way that you can make it safe is to be vulnerable yourself. (12:08) So none of us have all the answers, right? (12:10) And if we’re pretending that we do, all we’re doing is making everybody else feel like they have to have everything together too.

(12:16) And that’s just not how it works, right? (12:18) So to me, the number one thing you can do is honor the unique genius that people have. (12:24) Meaning, okay, I’m wide open front person.

(12:28) I can woo with the best of them. (12:30) Woo is one of the CliftonStrengths finders. (12:32) I don’t know if you’ve ever done that before, but woo is- I’m a wooer.

(12:35) Are you a wooer? (12:36) That doesn’t surprise me, Melissa, at all. (12:37) So you win others over, right?

(12:39) I can do that. (12:40) But don’t ask me to do the details on the spreadsheet to make sure that I make it to all of the different events and gather that. (12:47) That is not my unique genius.

(12:49) So the number one way a leader can make it safe is to know their people well enough to know, okay, Christy’s the woo. (12:57) We’ll send her out to do the thing. (12:58) And then I’m going to put Jason on the details because he’s really, really good at it.

(13:04) What happens instead is we give people a job title and we say, this is what you do. (13:09) Okay, great. (13:11) But it’s not what I’m great at, right?

(13:13) So a good friend of mine said something to me one time that really stuck. (13:16) As a leader, if it continually falls off your to-do list, week after week, it doesn’t make it to your actually done list, chances are it doesn’t belong on your list. (13:26) If we’re approaching our teams in a way where people know I’m allowed to thrive in the spaces that I’m really good at, that’s psychological safety.

(13:35) The other thing, and you said, give an example. (13:37) One of the best examples that I’ve heard actually happened from NASA. (13:41) And so Amy Edmondson wrote a book about psychological safety and one of the examples that she gives is there was somebody at NASA when the Challenger blew up.

(13:51) And this person saw something fall off of the rocket and told a supervisor. (13:56) Now this was somebody that didn’t hold a title, right? (13:58) But he saw it happen and he said, I think this is going to be really bad on re-entry.

(14:02) Please, please do something about it. (14:05) Nobody listened to him. (14:06) And then we know that the Challenger did blow up, right?

(14:09) Well, that’s an example of a lack of psychological safety. (14:12) If you’re not comfortable enough with me being a peon, if you will, right? (14:16) Like somebody that doesn’t hold a title telling you that something’s wrong or bad, then you’re not the kind of leader that makes it psychologically safe for me to thrive.

(14:24) So what are we doing to create space where people know it’s okay to not know, it’s okay to ask questions, it’s okay. (14:33) And am I exemplifying that in my actions or am I just pretending that I believe that to be true?

Melissa

(14:40) Yeah, that’s so spot on. (14:42) And then I think of like the logical piece. (14:44) Think of how much value a company is going to get when there’s that logical piece.

(14:50) I think about the example you gave where your boss says, come in my office at noon and maybe it’s eight o’clock in the morning. (14:58) And so from eight to noon, you’re probably not gonna be very productive. (15:03) Your brain’s not gonna be focused on the work you need to do.

(15:07) And secondly, you’re not even prepared to what you’re stepping. (15:13) And if you have to pay attention to the Smith file, you’re showing up not prepared. (15:18) And so that hour with your boss is wasted time.

(15:21) The first, I don’t know, 25% or more of it because now you gotta understand what his asks are. (15:28) So I think a logical is also so important because if we don’t have that, we’re wasting time on the front end and during the meeting and you’re really producing a culture that is not clear and always worried, right?

Christie

(15:45) Right. (15:45) Well, Brene Brown and I are besties. (15:47) She doesn’t know that we’re besties, but I have claimed her as a bestie.

(15:51) And she says, clear as kind, unclear as unkind, but we spend so much of our time in the unclear and we make assumptions and we just assume that people understood what I meant or what I needed next or can read my mind. (16:05) Nobody can read your mind. (16:07) I’ve been married almost 26 years.

(16:08) And in those 26 years, we have not figured out how to read each other’s minds yet. (16:12) And we never will, right? (16:14) So why would we think that that’s true in a workspace?

(16:17) It’s not. (16:18) So you’re right, the more clear we can be and that logical piece. (16:21) So I work a lot with conferences and at conferences, you’d get experts who are really, really good in the field and they know what they’re talking about, but they don’t know how to deliver information very well.

(16:33) And so what happens is they have a 100 slide PowerPoint with 900 words on each slide and they read it to you for an hour. (16:42) Well, nobody gets anything out of that. (16:43) That’s terrible, right?

(16:45) What if you took your top five things that you really wanted people to know, and I wouldn’t recommend any more than five, three is actually ideal, but five is fine. (16:53) If you had their top five things and you listed them out and you had bullets with exactly what you wanted people to know, not pages, not a ton of words, space, pictures, right? (17:05) Make it visually acceptable and appealing.

(17:08) And then you talked about those five things. (17:11) It would change everything because now I have in front of me what I need. (17:14) I’m able to focus on you instead of this slide with a whole bunch of stuff where I’m reading it instead of listening to you.

(17:22) You’re reading it to me. (17:23) I’m not listening. (17:24) I’m checking my phone to see what I’m gonna have for lunch.

(17:26) Like nobody’s paying attention, but the information was really important and we just missed it because we weren’t being logical.

Melissa

(17:35) 100%, and I think of fun. (17:38) A lot of times I’m hearing corporate companies are decreasing their retreats and their company gathering and not bringing up anybody together because of the cost, but I think about the value of fun to companies. (17:50) When people get together and they learn something about their colleagues that is non-work related, maybe they have things in common or they have a nice dinner together or they do different things together.

(18:05) I think it makes it easy for them to collaborate and they’re building relationships in a way that is really efficient for the company versus everybody is alone on their own island doing work. (18:17) So I think fun is also such an important part, but everything these days seems like we’re counting dollars because the operational costs in our country are going through the roof, but fun’s super important, wouldn’t you say?

Christie

(18:33) Oh, beyond important. (18:34) So two things, the happiness advantage was a study done at Harvard and people who are considered happy, and yes, they had a survey that they took and they did it very scientifically, were 31% more productive than their non-happy counterparts. (18:48) So that by itself should make people pay attention and go, oh gosh, my people aren’t happy and if they’re not happy, then this doesn’t work.

(18:56) But the fun part, not only is it important (18:58) to do what you said and have retreats (19:00) and pay attention and shower people (19:02) with some sort of external value motivation, (19:08) but fun to me has a very specific definition (19:10) because I am 100% extrovert, literally on any test, 100%, (19:14) which means that if you plan a happy hour, (19:16) I’m super stoked to go, (19:17) but my introverted friends (19:20) are actually exhausted by that idea, right? (19:23) They’re like, please don’t make me go anywhere. (19:24) I talked to people all day.

(19:25) No, thank you. (19:27) So fun means three things. (19:28) This is my definition of fun.

(19:30) Fun means people feel valued and appreciated. (19:32) Fun means people have a voice and they’re allowed to use it. (19:36) And fun means that people are able to leverage their talents for the greater good.

(19:40) So valued and appreciated, it is as simple as saying thank you. (19:43) Hey, you worked really hard on that project and I really appreciate it. (19:46) Thank you for all your hard work or thank you for this report.

(19:48) This report made it so much easier for me to be able to go to the Smith meeting because I understand exactly what I need to know. (19:55) So just appreciating your people. (19:56) And you often hear, oh, well, we do a special parking place upfront for the employee of the month.

(20:02) Okay, there are 12 months in a year. (20:04) You have 200 employees. (20:06) You’re telling me it’s gonna take you how many years to value all of them?

(20:10) That’s wonderful for one or 12 a year, but what would happen if you were doing something that everybody could get? (20:16) Because that’s not necessarily as motivating as you think. (20:19) Then the having a voice and being allowed to use it.

(20:22) We frequently ask people to fill out, like I know our company uses Tiny Pulse, right? (20:26) So great, you’re asking for my feedback on Tiny Pulse and I am giving you my feedback, but what are you doing with it? (20:32) Do I know that I have a voice that’s actually being heard?

(20:35) Do things change? (20:36) I don’t need you to take all my advice. (20:38) I need you to tell me why you didn’t, right?

(20:39) Like, so we’re going in this direction. (20:41) We got your input. (20:42) Thank you so much.

(20:43) And 60% of you said this, so we’re going this way. (20:46) Awesome, now I feel like I have a voice. (20:48) And it can be as simple with adults.

(20:50) You know, I work with adult learners, right? (20:52) Of, I need you to take this piece of paper. (20:55) I don’t care if you hold it portrait or landscape.

(20:58) That’s choice, that’s voice. (21:00) That’s giving me the opportunity to do it the way I see it makes sense. (21:03) And then the last one, leveraging your talents, is what I was talking about with psychological safety.

(21:07) Do you know me well enough to know that I’m good at these things? (21:11) So I actually do a personality test. (21:13) You know, we talked about Clifton StrengthsFinder.

(21:15) Super deep, super wonderful, I love it. (21:17) But the one I use is one that does not require people to write anything or know a whole lot. (21:22) They don’t have to fill out a survey to know this one.

(21:25) I work with people to figure out what their neurosignatures are, but I’ve given the neurosignatures an item. (21:31) So you are either a paperclip, a teddy bear, a magnifying glass, or a slinky. (21:37) Those are the four things you can be, and so I can explain it in five minutes or less.

(21:42) And then what people do is they figure out, okay, so as a paperclip, here’s how I tend to show up, which means I need a slinky on my team if I want to have bigger ideas. (21:51) So do you wanna hear what those four are? (21:53) Do we have time?

(21:54) Yes, yes. (21:55) Okay, so our paperclips are unbelievably linear with how they see things. (21:59) They probably have a color-coded sock drawer.

(22:01) They’re the ones that are holding things together. (22:03) So the hormone that they actually release in their brain is serotonin, and they tend to be the list maker, the person who just keeps everybody super duper organized, right? (22:13) Awesome, need a paperclip.

(22:15) Then you have your teddy bears. (22:16) Your teddy bears are more concerned with how people feel. (22:18) So they’re asking you, when was the last time you took a break?

(22:21) I think we should have snacks at this meeting. (22:25) Go rest. (22:25) I can tell you need a day of PTO.

(22:28) Taking care of the human side, some people don’t have that. (22:31) Other people are really, really good at it. (22:33) Then you have your magnifying glasses.

(22:35) Your magnifying glasses get stuff done, right? (22:37) They zoom in on the details, and they go, we need to do this, and then we need to do this. (22:40) They take the to-do list that the paperclip created, and they knock things off of it.

(22:46) But they tend to, if they’re just magnifying glasses, not remember that there are humans involved, and they’re like, what’s your problem? (22:51) We’ve been working since two o’clock, and we’re gonna work till 10 o’clock, and we’ll be fine. (22:55) Right, and people are like, whoa, hold on.

(22:57) So our magnifying glasses, though, are often those, they’re the taskmasters. (23:02) They’re the ones that get stuff done. (23:03) Wonderful, you need magnifying glasses.

(23:05) And then you have your slinkies, and your slinkies are fun, right? (23:08) Watch a slinky slink down the stairs, that’s great. (23:12) But your slinkies are your big idea people.

(23:14) So they tend to see things and go, oh my gosh, what if we did this, this, this, and this? (23:18) But they desperately need a paperclip in their space to actually accomplish that thing. (23:22) So I mentioned that paperclips are serotonin.

(23:25) Then you have your teddy bears. (23:27) They’re estrogen, not necessarily gender-specific. (23:29) You have your magnifying glasses.

(23:31) They’re testosterone. (23:32) And then you have your slinkies. (23:34) They’re dopamine.

(23:35) And so you need all four of those on your team. (23:37) If you put a group of slinkies on a team, and you ask them to create a task or do a thing, they are gonna have 900 fabulous ideas, and they will get none of them on paper, right? (23:48) Your paperclips will have a very organized list, but there will be zero creativity in it, right, if I just put paperclips together.

(23:55) My teddy bears will hug each other and love on each other and have the best time, but they’re probably not going to get a whole lot accomplished either. (24:01) And then our magnifying glasses are gonna be done in 8.7 seconds, and they will have this thing done very much in a box. (24:09) So the idea is, when I work with leadership teams, we first figure out what we’ve got, and then we go, okay, how can you make sure that you are moving to people’s strengths and that you’re letting your slinky shine and you’re letting your teddy bear shine, and you’re recognizing, oh, wait, we don’t have a teddy bear on this team.

(24:25) We need that, otherwise people are gonna quit on us. (24:27) So those are some of the things that I do with leadership teams that are so fun.

Melissa

(24:30) I love it. (24:32) That is such a good analogy. (24:35) I wanna talk a little bit about your podcast, Productive Joy.

(24:39) First of all, it’s a great title and a great concept. (24:42) So let’s talk a little bit about what Productive Joy means to you and how can organizations design cultures that support it without losing sight of the business.

Christie

(24:54) Yeah, oh, I love that. (24:55) Okay, so chat GPT, and I came up with Productive Joy. (25:00) So what happened was I knew I wanted to start a podcast.

(25:03) My catchphrase for our company is if you don’t make work fun, people quit. (25:06) And so I put that in and I said, okay, give me other ideas because for me, for the podcast, it didn’t just need to be about work. (25:13) It needed to be about being a human because we’re humans before we’re employees.

(25:17) And so Productive Joy for me encompassed both, right? (25:21) Because you can have productive joy in your home or you can have productive joy at work. (25:25) The idea is that fun and work don’t need to be mutually exclusive.

(25:29) So how do we bring those things together? (25:31) The tagline at the end is always find a way to have fun meet action because if you are enjoying what you’re doing and you can produce something at the same time, then that’s that perfect marriage of good things. (25:44) So how does Productive Joy work in the workplace and where is that coming from?

(25:48) So my guests have been from all over the place and they are so amazing. (25:52) Some are authors, some are CEOs. (25:54) It just depends on who ends up coming.

(25:57) But the question that I always ask them is what’s your definition of Productive Joy and then how do you create it? (26:02) Because if you say, like, it’s funny, I’ve had 145 episodes and I’ve not really gotten the exact same answer twice. (26:10) But what I have gotten is some themes, right?

(26:14) So the number one theme is that joy is a choice and that you have to work for it, right? (26:19) Absolutely, I agree with that completely. (26:22) And that, because the good and the bad are always there, right, what we choose to focus on is what we’re gonna see.

(26:26) And then the other one that I’ve heard more than once is that Productive Joy is peace. (26:30) I was like, hmm, say more, right? (26:32) Productive Joy means that you are in that flow state where you are, you’re just grinding because you love what you’re doing, not because you have to.

(26:42) And that is a great definition of Productive Joy. (26:45) Now, are you creating that as a leader at work? (26:47) Are you giving people space where they can be in flow?

(26:50) Are you creating opportunities for people to be in their unique genius and do the stuff that really lights them up inside? (26:58) And if you’re not, why not, right? (27:00) Because even if you’re making a widget, right, and this widget has to be made just like this, if I’m a really good systems thinker and I could make the widget faster if you just moved this over here, let me, let me try that.

(27:14) And then if it doesn’t work, be okay if it doesn’t work because we’re gonna fail forward and often, but at least ask, does that make sense?

Melissa

(27:22) Yeah, 100%, I think it’s so spot on. (27:24) And I love that you mentioned that because joy is a choice. (27:27) We can sit in so many different, you know, things like, you know, victim mentality and really joy is a choice because none of us are getting out of life without some struggles and trials and tribulations and loss.

(27:43) And so it’s really a choice to be happy and joyful. (27:46) And so I want to pivot gears a little bit. (27:49) And I know from the C-suite to the frontline manner, front lines, leaders have a lot going on these days.

(27:57) And I know that you help become leaders, better educators for themselves and not just their team. (28:05) So can you share a little bit about that with our listeners?

Christie

(28:09) Yeah, so we work with individuals and with companies. (28:12) And when we work with individuals, it’s about finding their unique genius. (28:16) What is it that you are able to do easily, quickly, without a lot of work that other people go, oh my gosh, how did you do that?

(28:23) Right, because we all have it. (28:25) And then once you discover what that is, how can you turn that into something that cultivates productivity, right? (28:31) Like how can you take it and actually have it feed into what you do?

(28:35) So maybe you’re really, really good at building a project timeline, right? (28:39) Like, and you just can crank that out, no problem. (28:41) How can you use that to create something for yourself?

(28:45) And so when we work with individuals, it’s really about that self-discovery and that, okay, so tell me about you and tell me what you love doing, what lights you up inside. (28:56) And then how can we turn that into a business? (28:57) How can we leverage that on LinkedIn?

(28:59) How can we make sure that other people see it too? (29:02) Because every one of us is a gift, but we don’t all need the same gift, right? (29:07) And so it’s understanding that I don’t have to fit in this perfect little box because I don’t necessarily need that box.

(29:14) I might need this box, right? (29:15) Like my shape might be a circle and your shape might be a star and both are perfect for what they’re needed for. (29:21) So when we work with individuals, it’s about helping leaders understand, okay, so if this is your unique genius and this is the thing that you are so very good at, how can we turn that into something you get to do more often than not?

(29:33) We can’t 100% of the time live in our unique genius. (29:35) Unfortunately, we still have to do laundry and things that we don’t enjoy, right? (29:39) But how can we spend the bulk of our time in that space and outsource some of that other stuff so that we can get more done?

(29:47) And so when I work with leaders individually, it’s really about that, that self-discovery. (29:51) And then what? (29:52) What are you gonna do with it?

Melissa

(29:54) And I love that because I think I hear a lot. (29:56) I’m not a leader. (29:57) I don’t manage people.

(29:59) I’m not in leadership. (30:00) I’m not a thought leader. (30:01) And I absolutely disagree with this, Dr. Christy, because I think we’re all leading ourselves somewhere. (30:09) It could be a good thing, a bad thing. (30:12) And I think when you ground yourself in coaching and really unpack all that for yourself, you can realize you can lead yourself to get out of bed on a Saturday, or you can lead yourself to stay in bed and sleep in. (30:26) And so I love that you talked about that.

(30:30) I wanna get any final thoughts or any other tips and nuggets of wisdom you wanna leave with our listeners or anything else.

Christie

(30:40) Okay, so we talked about it a couple of times, but I think this is the important thing is that if you don’t make work fun, people will quit. (30:49) And if you are leading, and I mean that if you’re talking, if you don’t make life fun, maybe we should say it that way, because I’m talking about you talking to your 15-year-old, right? (30:59) And getting your 15-year-old to comply with what you expect in the house or about driving a car or whatever it is.

(31:06) There has to be some fun involved with that, right? (31:09) There has to be that I feel valued and appreciated. (31:12) I know that I have a voice and that I’m able to leverage my talents.

(31:17) So as leaders, I want you to do a little self-analysis. (31:20) Are you making it fun? (31:22) Is it fun to work with you, to work for you, to work alongside you?

(31:27) And if it isn’t, why not? (31:30) What’s stopping you? (31:31) Is it fear?

(31:32) Is it lack of understanding? (31:34) Is it a skill gap or a will gap? (31:37) And what do you want to do to make sure that you jump that gap and you actually end up where you want to?

(31:42) So if you don’t, be ready to retrain and hire new people and start over because people will walk if they don’t find the fun.

Melissa

(31:52) I love that. (31:53) This has been one of those conversations that is absolutely for certain going to stick with our audience for a very long time. (32:03) So for some of our listeners that want to learn more about you and your work, what’s the best way that they can contact you?

Christie

(32:10) Yeah, so we’re all over social. (32:12) So if you just look for Productive Joy or Dr. Christy McMullen, you’ll find us. (32:18) Also, our company is called Intentionality Group.

(32:21) And so you can email me at christy, C-H-R-I-S-T-I-E, at intentionalitygroup.com and just say, hey, I am so interested in more of what you have, let’s go. (32:31) So any of those would be the easiest way. (32:34) And I have this innate, genuine curiosity for humans and I just want to learn from you too.

(32:41) So if you have this, if like, if you listen to this and you went, okay, I really want to know X, please call. (32:49) Because I legitimately also want to know X, whatever that is. (32:53) It’s just fun.

Melissa

(32:55) I love it. (32:56) I thank you so much for sharing your time and your knowledge with our listeners today, Dr. Christy. (33:04) That’s the Executive Connect podcast.