In this episode of Executive Connect, Melissa Aarskaug sits down with Rich Smith, a former CMO and behavioral marketing expert, to discuss why companies waste time and money when they jump into tactics before defining a clear strategic foundation. Rich explains how leaders can test whether their teams truly understand the strategy, identify messaging written for the company instead of the customer, and communicate marketing decisions in language that makes sense inside the boardroom.

The conversation explores behavioral science, content strategy, customer psychology, positioning, trust, and the value of consistency in a fast-moving market. Rich also explains why buyers respond to emotion before logic, how companies can reduce the perceived risk of saying yes, and why clear, differentiated messaging matters more than copying what competitors are doing.

They also discuss building authority beyond a corporate role, finding a profitable direction by following talent before passion, and knowing when it may be time to turn a side business into a full-time venture.

Chapters:

(0:21) Meet Rich and the importance of strategic clarity

(1:10) Why companies confuse tactics with strategy

(2:32) How to test whether a team understands the strategy

(4:03) Bringing behavioral science into marketing

(6:19) Explaining technical value in language customers understand

(8:05) A simple test for customer-centered website messaging

(8:47) Why consistency helps brands break through

(11:03) Choosing content leverage over endless volume

(13:47) How content creates long-term business opportunities

(14:32) Why marketing leaders should listen to sales calls

(16:04) Reducing content burnout through focus

(17:26) Why buyers prefer specialists over generalists

(19:29) Thought leadership versus copycat content

(23:13) Understanding the psychology beneath customer needs

(25:53) Reducing political and financial risk for B2B buyers

(28:21) How trust compounds through clarity and consistency

(35:15) Reinventing a company without destroying customer trust

(39:53) Building authority and income while still employed

(40:17) Why talent should come before passion

(42:03) Knowing when to make the full-time transition

Rich

(0:00) Go to your own website and count the number of times that you say we, our, or your brand name. (0:06) And then count the number of times you say you or your on your website. (0:11) If you’re saying we, our, or your brand name more than you’re saying, you’ve written your website for yourself, not for your customer and not in their perspectives.

Melissa

(0:21) Most companies don’t struggle because they lack ideas. (0:24) They struggle because no one can clearly explain them why their strategy actually works inside the boardroom. (0:32) Clarity beats creativity every single time.

(0:36) Today’s guest has spent more than 30 years in those rooms where the budgets were nine figures and results were non-negotiable. (0:44) Rich Smith is the former CMO turned behavioral marketing expert who has helped founders, CEOs, and boards close the gap between marketing and the language of business. (0:56) This episode is about turning experience into authority and building growth that actually holds up under pressure.

(1:04) Welcome Rich.

Rich

(1:06) Hey, thanks, Melissa. (1:07) Very nice intro. (1:08) Thanks for having me on.

Melissa

(1:10) I’m excited to talk to you and I’m a little tongue twisted this morning, but I’m excited to chat a little bit about you. (1:17) You’ve said companies don’t fully lack ideas, but they misunderstand their own strategy. (1:26) Where does that disconnect start?

Rich

(1:29) Well, I think it often starts with just a natural human tendency to want to do things. (1:36) When I talk to a CEO for the first time, I get questions like, should we be on Facebook? (1:43) Should we be doing more with social media, more paid search?

(1:48) Should we be going to more trade shows? (1:50) The smart answer that I always give is maybe. (1:53) Tell me what your strategy is and I’ll tell you if those are the right tactics, because people just naturally want to jump to tactics.

(2:01) I think without doing the hard work to get the strategy, the strategic foundation in place first, if you just jump to tactics, you can get lucky. (2:13) A blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then. (2:16) It might happen, but chances are good that you’re going to struggle for a while.

(2:22) Or you might get lucky in one channel, but you’re going to have other channels that are a big drag on your acquisition cost and you don’t even realize it.

Melissa

(2:32) Yeah, it’s so true. (2:34) I love this because I find that marketing teams struggle a lot communicating with boards or senior leadership of what their strategy really is. (2:42) To your point, we’re going to go to this event and that event and buy these ads and buy that ads, but there’s no real strategy.

(2:50) What signals tell you that a strategy isn’t really understood yet internally?

Rich

(2:56) Well, I think it’s pretty straightforward. (2:59) Only one thing that I try to do, I just ask people. (3:02) When I talk to a new organization, I ask them, hey, tell me what your strategy is.

(3:06) You ask enough people, five different people, you get five different answers, then you know that there isn’t a really good understanding of what the strategy is. (3:16) That’s a real drag on the performance of an organization, particularly a midsize business or a startup business where a lot of people are doing a lot of things. (3:32) If you are not clearly aligned from top to bottom, you’re going to have a lot of wasted effort that you really just can’t afford.

Melissa

(3:42) Yeah, I agree. (3:44) I think understanding strategy before we do anything in any business is really important. (3:51) It often shocks me how few organizations, even some of really large organizations, when you ask them about strategy, they’re not super clear about any of it.

(4:03) You’ve made this deliberate shift from CEO to this behavioral marketing expert. (4:12) I love that. (4:13) Talk to me a little bit about why identity is so important in your positioning or company’s positioning.

Rich

(4:20) Yeah. (4:21) I came to the whole field of behavioral economics not too long ago. (4:28) Frankly, it’s only been around for about 20 years.

(4:31) It was really like 2007 when Kahneman published his book, Thinking Fast and Slow. (4:37) It was the start of that whole thing. (4:39) My entire career, and I think what drew me to being in marketing, was really understanding how people make decisions and why does a particular phrase on a particular ad work and a different phrase not work.

(4:55) That always fascinated me. (4:57) It wasn’t until I really got into understanding behavioral economics and behavioral marketing that I began to get the science behind why those things work. (5:06) Today, what I do is I bring that to (5:11) the organizations that I work with to help them understand not only what might be why their (5:17) current strategy or their current go-into-market plan may not be working, and usually there are (5:22) pretty solid behavioral science explanations for that, and then also talk about strategies that (5:29) are more likely to work because they’re tailored to how we actually think and how we as humans, (5:35) how we actually think and make decisions and deal with all the cognitive biases that we have. (5:42) I don’t want to turn this into a monologue, but one of the problems that I often see, (5:45) and I bet you probably do as well, companies talking about their main marketing message will (5:53) be things like, hey, here’s how we can improve your ROI, or here are the features, the benefits, (6:00) here’s all the great things that we do, and they haven’t really thought about how to frame (6:05) the value that they bring to the market in terms that their reader or their user or their (6:13) potential customer will actually identify with and adopt.

Melissa

(6:19) I love that you just said that. (6:21) I feel like I’ve been in an industry for 15 years where I’ve had to rewrite the narrative. (6:26) I’m like, we’re explaining this to our customers super technical, but the people that are signing off on this are not super technical, so they’re trying to understand what we’re selling them and how much it’s going to cost and what it’s doing for them, and we’re telling them statistics and tech things and tech lingo that they don’t understand.

(6:47) It’s so true to really get clear of why people are even searching your website, phoning you, why are they buying, what is the buying reason behind it, and then being consistent with this strategy. (7:02) I find maybe you can shed some light on it. (7:05) I feel like everybody’s strategy is this, let’s shift.

(7:08) Okay, let’s shift again because AI, oh wait, we need humans too. (7:11) Let’s shift back to the human. (7:13) What’s always really worked for me in anything personally or professionally has been consistency, but I often find right now we’re not giving things enough time to churn to really figure out if it’s working.

(7:29) Part of that, I would say it’s because of the world we live in that it’s moving so fast and everybody wants revenue yesterday, not tomorrow, and so it’s really hard to balance these two things. (7:42) Talk to me a little bit about what role consistency makes in a world that is changing so quickly and under a lot of pressure. (7:51) Ready to lead smarter and invest wiser?

(7:54) On the Executive Connect podcast, we unpack executive strategies for wealth and influence. (8:01) Hit the subscribe button now. (8:04) Don’t just watch, act.

Rich

(8:05) That being consistent in many dimensions is really important. (8:10) One thing just to close on the last thing that we were talking about, I’ll give your listeners a quick way to know whether their is off target. (8:20) Go to your own website and count the number of times that you say we, our, or your brand name, and then count the number of times you say you or your on your website.

(8:32) If you’re saying we, our, or your brand name more than you’re saying, you’ve written your website for yourself, not for your customer and not in their perspective. (8:42) That’s a quick trick just to diagnose whether you have an issue or not. (8:47) Then going to the consistency thing.

(8:49) Look, again, another problem that I see often is because organizations have not done the hard work to develop a sound strategy, they feel like they have to try lots of things. (9:04) They spend a little bit in social media and they spend a little bit on paid search and they spend a little bit on trade shows. (9:10) They spread the limited budget that they have across a wide, wide variety of activities.

(9:19) The problem with that is they can’t generate any kind of consistency in any one of those platforms. (9:26) The potential buyers, yes, they might cross. (9:30) We all do.

(9:31) We use multiple platforms. (9:32) For every person, there are a few primary ones. (9:36) If you’re not really showing up in a consistent way on the same platform in front of the same audience over and over again, you’re not going to break through the noise.

(9:48) The result will be, again, you might get lucky. (9:52) One of them might luck out and hit, but chances are pretty good you’re going to be spending a lot of money across a wide variety of things and not really know which is working because you’re not getting enough critical mass in any single one of them to make it work.

Melissa

(10:08) Yeah, I love that. (10:09) It makes me excited. (10:10) Slowly I’m smiling on the inside because I’ve worked for marketing leaders that are like, oh my gosh, we’ve been so successful at trade shows and then our entire strategy pivots to trade shows.

(10:22) I would argue I don’t do a lot of deals as an elite salesperson at trade shows. (10:29) I don’t close a lot of deals. (10:31) That’s where we’re educating, finding new people.

(10:35) When I’m closing deals, I’m sitting in front of a customer. (10:38) I’m not doing it at a trade show because they’re probably there to see a bunch of other people as well. (10:44) Consistency matters and getting in front of those customers, the same customers to your point, over and over and over is really key.

(10:52) If you can’t be in front of them all the time, you got to use marketing and whatever your marketing strategy has to be over and over. (10:57) They’re thinking of you and you have that problem. (10:59) As an expert, I love that point.

(11:03) I want to talk about, now you built content platforms while still operating. (11:08) How do you think about leverage instead of volume?

Rich

(11:12) Yeah. (11:12) What I mean by that is it matters more about the quality of the content that you’re putting out than the volume of the content that you’re putting out. (11:23) Now, that’s not to say that you don’t need repetition.

(11:27) You absolutely do. (11:29) But one of the things that I think a lot of us marketers and organizations lose track of is that not everyone is listening to everything that you say. (11:41) In fact, they’re probably listening to very little of what you say.

(11:44) By the time you get tired of a marketing message, your customer’s probably just starting to hear it. (11:53) I see organizations change their campaigns or go to market their messaging mainly out of boredom, I think. (12:02) They just get bored with it and they decide, okay, we need to do something else.

(12:07) The reality is your target buyer is only hearing a very, very small fraction of what you’re putting out there. (12:16) That goes back to the question about leverage versus volume. (12:21) If you’re putting out a limited amount of content, but you can message it in multiple ways.

(12:28) You can message it across multiple platforms. (12:31) You can repost. (12:32) We’re on a podcast now.

(12:34) I’m very sure that you’re going to run this entire episode someplace, but you probably will also pull out lots of short reels and videos and promos that you can do around it. (12:45) You might send an email to your subscriber list, letting them know about the podcast with some background on it. (12:51) You can repurpose that same content in lots of places.

(12:55) It’s far more important that the content be good and be designed in a way that will make it resonate with your target audience than it is to put out a mass volume. (13:05) Always keep in mind that you can repurpose content that you’ve produced before in multiple ways.

Melissa

(13:11) I absolutely agree with that. (13:13) It’s funny because I think it’s even longer now. (13:16) I find that people are on content overload or email overload.

(13:24) Everybody’s going after the guys at the top or in my case, the CIO, CTO, CEOs. (13:30) They’re bombarded with content and emails. (13:34) You really got to be consistent and clear to your point.

(13:40) I have to check my website if it says, I’m curious to see how many times. (13:45) That’s going to be a fun trick. (13:47) Talk to me a little bit about how this content that we’re creating is translating into opportunities.

Rich

(13:56) Yeah. (13:57) I think it depends on what type of content we’re talking about. (14:02) It definitely can generate opportunities, but it is a long game.

(14:08) Sometimes it’s very hard to tell whether the content marketing, the content that you’re putting out is really driving the needle or not. (14:16) One quick way to check is, if you’re being consistent across all of your go-to-market messaging, the content that you’re putting out probably exists in some form within your sales materials or a sales pitch that you might do. (14:32) So, if you’re in the midst, and I encourage, as a CMO, I would often sit in on sales calls.

(14:40) I encourage anybody in leadership, sit in on some sales calls every now and then. (14:47) Go along to a sales presentation in person if you can. (14:50) That’s even better.

(14:51) When your salesperson starts going through their pitch, if you’re getting blank looks from the audience or questions like, can you go back three slides and explain what you were talking about? (15:05) Then you immediately know that that messaging is missing and it’s not resonating. (15:11) It’s time to go back to the drawing board and recreate it.

Melissa

(15:18) Yeah, I agree with you. (15:19) That’s a great piece of advice, having CMOs sit in and understand pitches because they can look at the decks they’re using, the content they’re using, how they’re selling what they’re selling. (15:31) I’m sitting here thinking, Rich, I’m like, have I ever in my career had a marketing person sit in with me?

(15:39) And the answer is no. (15:41) I don’t think I’ve ever had, as an elite salesperson driving hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue, I’ve never had a CMO. (15:49) I’ve had many CEOs sit with me.

(15:51) I’ve had many technical people sit with me, but I don’t think I’ve ever had a marketing person. (15:57) And so that’s a huge nugget of wisdom to leverage. (16:04) Talk to me a little bit about this content burnout that I’m seeing and hearing a lot of people talk about.

(16:13) How do you avoid this kind of content burnout game?

Rich

(16:17) Yeah, so I think, again, it goes back to quality over quantity, right? (16:22) If you are feeling burnt out, chances are pretty good that you’re doing things that aren’t actually adding value. (16:30) And my advice when I hear that is take a step back, really, like, analyze how you are spending your time.

(16:39) Where are you putting your time? (16:41) How much of a particular type of content are you putting out? (16:43) And be honest, what are the things that are going to add the most value?

(16:50) So burnout often comes from doing too many things without feeling like you’re getting anywhere, right? (16:56) You’re not making progress. (16:58) So by limiting and being more focused on the things that are working or are the things that are most likely to be the most valuable, you can eliminate a lot of the other stuff.

(17:11) And you’ll find that your ultimate results will improve because we also have just a natural tendency as humans to feel like, well, we want to be out there for everybody. (17:26) When you ask someone who their ideal customer is and they give you a really, really, really wide range, they have a challenge there. (17:34) Because, you know, as buyers, as consumers, we’re not looking for a generalist.

(17:41) We’re looking for specialists. (17:43) We’re looking for people who can solve our exact problem. (17:48) And it’s just like if you needed a knee replacement.

(17:52) Okay. (17:53) How are you going to find the doctor? (17:54) Are you going to go to the doctor who does shoulders, elbows, wrists, ankles, and knees?

(18:00) Are you going to go to the doctor that does 10 knee replacements every single day? (18:06) Right. (18:06) Like you want the specialist.

(18:08) You want the knee replacement specialist. (18:11) You don’t want a generalist. (18:13) And the same is true with everything that we buy.

(18:16) So, you know, when you oftentimes, again, burnout is caused by trying to be too many things and too many people do too many things in many places. (18:24) So I find the solution is to refocus on the things that really matter and eliminate all of that other stuff.

Melissa

(18:33) Yeah. (18:34) And I love that you brought that up because it’s so relevant. (18:37) I think a lot of times, and I know I’m guilty of it as a salesperson, I’m like, this client wants this thing.

(18:43) We could totally do it. (18:44) We could totally, you know, repurpose these resources to do that. (18:49) And I’ve been successful talking, you know, senior leadership into pivoting a strategy many, many times, I would say, you know, more than the latter.

(19:00) But what I realize now on the other side of that, then we become the cheesecake factory and people don’t really understand, you know, what we’re offering. (19:11) We want to be the in and out. (19:13) We understand we’re selling cheeseburgers and fries, not every type of food.

(19:18) And so I love that you brought that up because I think it’s so true. (19:22) It’s so easy to get sideways and what you’re offering and not really focus on who you are and what you’re offering. (19:29) And so I want to talk a little bit about thought leadership versus thought followership and why does so much of the content right now sound exactly the same and read exactly the same?

(19:44) And how does behavioral science change that?

Rich

(19:48) Yeah. (19:48) I think a lot of reasons sounds the same because again, we have this tendency to think that, well, if someone else is doing it, it’ll work for me too. (19:59) And companies do this as well.

(20:02) You know, I mean, I don’t know about you, but you know, I get pitched for all kinds of things on LinkedIn every single day. (20:08) And, you know, it is uncanny how many of the messages that I receive on LinkedIn are identical, like almost identical. (20:18) And some of it could be because people are using LLMs and AI to produce their messaging.

(20:24) But a lot of it is just because, you know, we have this kind of copycat strategy that exists in a lot of industries. (20:33) And the problem with that is that, well, if you’re saying the same thing that everybody else is saying, then your buyer can’t tell the difference between you. (20:43) You know, one example I always give, I’ve worked for a lot of financial institutions, a lot of banks.

(20:48) Raise your hand if your bank says that they don’t have great rates and great fees, low fees. (20:55) Right? (20:56) Every single bank says that.

(20:58) They all say it. (21:00) It’s worthless, right? (21:02) Like if you see that advertising, you’re like, okay, they all say that.

(21:05) So I don’t really know whether they do or not. (21:07) Now I have to do the work to shop and find out. (21:10) Right?

(21:11) So you’ve got to really think about what are you saying that, and I always encourage you to try to come up with superlatives like best, first, fastest, only, proprietary, right? (21:25) Patented. (21:26) Something that you can say that’s unique to you, that’s a superlative that matters to your target buyer.

(21:34) And that’s when you are really getting honed in on effective messaging.

Melissa

(21:40) Yeah. (21:40) And I think I love that you brought the bank up because all banks right now are increasing their fees. (21:47) Every bank across the board is increasing fees.

(21:50) And it’s funny that you bring up the bank because what they’re defaulting to is this, quote unquote, safe messaging that, you know, this bank did it. (21:59) And so they’re a similar size, so we should do that. (22:03) Or they posted their, you know, high yields, you know, CDs or whatever.

(22:09) And so people are, you know, coffee catting kind of essentially. (22:13) But I do think there is this special, you know, way to differentiate yourself and actually think through things and make ideas memorable to your potential, you know, whatever your avatar is in whatever industry. (22:32) And so, you know, how does one get there and make things, you know, memorable to their right, you know, ideal client.

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Rich

(23:13) Yeah, you know, it really starts with beginning to understand your buyer, your target buyer’s psychology. (23:20) You know, I’ve spent a lot of my career as, you know, marketing commodities, right? (23:26) Like mortgages, you know, over my shoulder right there is a racing helmet that has the Ditek logo on it.

(23:33) I was a CMO of Ditek Mortgage, national mortgage company, you know, top 10 company in the country for a period of time. (23:41) And, you know, when you’re marketing mortgages, well, one, no one really wants one, right? (23:46) Like, do you really want a mortgage?

(23:48) No, I don’t. (23:49) What you want is what comes along with it, right? (23:52) So part of understanding the buyer’s psychology, it was really when I took over there and was kind of relaunching that brand, you know, it really came down to understanding who was in my persuadable target audience, because my potential audience is every homeowner in the United States, right?

(24:11) But I knew that not all of the, not everybody’s going to like us, right? (24:17) So part of it is figuring out who is persuadable, who’s in that soft middle, so to speak, just like running a political campaign is very similar, and understanding who they are, and what is motivating them. (24:31) So long winded way of saying, you really have to drill into who is your target buyer?

(24:37) What are the things that are, what are the not what, you know, if you ask them what they want, they’ll tell you what they like, want or need. (24:45) But what they really are after is solving the pain or the fear that sits below those likes, wants and needs. (24:52) You know, it’s almost like a, like an iceberg in the ocean, right?

(24:57) The likes, wants and needs are the part that you see above the surface. (25:01) But below the surface is all the pain and the fear that that person is experiencing. (25:07) And if you can come up with what you can say about yourself from a messaging perspective, that resolves that pain and that fear, that’s where you will unlock action, right?

(25:18) Because it’s, it’s emotion that drives action. (25:21) And we tend to think that we are rational beings. (25:24) But you know, as humans, we’re actually more like meaning making and feeling machines that think every once in a while.

(25:32) And so we really tend to make decisions based on emotion, and then rationalize them later. (25:37) So even in a B2B environment, you know, it’s really important to think about what are the kind of pains and fears that my buyer is experiencing, that our product or service resolves. (25:51) And that’s what I want to message to.

(25:53) And honestly, that continues through the entire sales cycle. (25:58) Right? (26:00) Okay, let’s say you get engaged with a B2B customer, potential customer, you get them into your pipeline, sales teams beginning to work with them, you’ve got a champion inside the organization.

(26:13) But what is that champion really experiencing? (26:17) Yes, they’re interested, they want your product. (26:21) But there’s also a lot of political risk that they take within the organization, right?

(26:27) There’s a lot of work that they have to do, you know, if they may have to go to their legal department and get it approved, they may have to go to it and get it approved, may have to go to the compliance department get approved, they may have to put a presentation together for senior management to get the budget approved. (26:42) It’s a lot of like political risk. (26:45) And so a lot of you know, success in the B2B world is de-risking the buying process for your buyer.

(26:51) Right? (26:52) Make trying to make it as easy for them as possible, and reduce the perceived risk that they have from saying yes, to buying from you.

Melissa

(27:02) Yeah, the emotion is so key. (27:05) And I really believe storytelling plays a really important role in who you know, what your company is, why did you start it? (27:13) You know, what do you offer, like to your point earlier about the what do you do for potential customers, but telling that journey telling that story, because you’re right, you’re spot on people buy on emotion.

(27:25) And you want to kind of, you know, not be phony with it. (27:29) I think a lot of times people can tell, you know, when we’re not being phony, but they can also say, hey, I started this business because, you know, you know, like I have friends who started businesses because their spouse died. (27:43) And they wanted to help other spouses solve a problem, you know, through their journey.

(27:51) And you know, losing a spouse and what they had to go through. (27:55) And their business just took off, right? (27:58) Because they were very authentic.

(28:00) They were very genuine on why they started it. (28:03) And the emotion was there. (28:05) And you could feel it.

(28:06) And you could tell it and they solve their problem that I would say, people don’t start to think about until they’re older. (28:13) And so I love the emotion. (28:15) And I think it goes back, you know, to trust, trust is an asset.

(28:21) And I think a lot of times, you know, I know you’ve worked with leaders across decades, you know, talk to me about how this trust that you’ve built early in your career to where you are today has compounded over time.

Rich

(28:37) Yeah, I think trust is built through consistency and, and transparency, quite honest, clarity, right? (28:47) You know, I’ll talk first and, you know, give you a corporate example, and then talk personally. (28:53) So I was the chief marketing officer of AIG Bank during the financial crisis in 2008.

(29:01) So like, I was at the ground zero, sort of the center of that whole mess. (29:07) Now, the bank where I worked was not the source of AIG’s problems. (29:12) It was a different business unit.

(29:13) But we were tarred with the same brush. (29:16) And, you know, overnight, you know, we saw our brand awareness, which was for a trillion dollar market cap company was really, really small, go to like, everybody in the world knew who we were, you know, brand awareness was like 100%. (29:30) But the perception of our brand was, you know, in the tank.

(29:34) And the way we got out of that was being very public about what our path to recovery was, what the milestones would be how we were going to pay back the government and when that would happen, and then hitting those milestones. (29:48) So it’s, I know, it sounds cliche, but say what you’re going to do and do what you say, right? (29:55) Like, those are the things that that build trust, consistency over time, transparency, delivering on what you promise to do in a quality way.

(30:07) That that’s what builds trust, it builds trust for a corporation. (30:11) You know, in the AIG example, it’s the same for, you know, for you personally, in your career, and how you build trust is, you know, be transparent, say what you’re going to do, do what you’re going to say, try to be very clear. (30:26) Another place that I think is a mistake that creates mistrust is having a lack of alignment within your team or with your, your leadership.

(30:39) And so making sure that you’re really clear on, okay, here’s what we’re going to do. (30:44) Is that right? (30:45) Right?

(30:46) Make sure that everybody’s aligned. (30:47) And that’s something that has to be maintained. (30:49) Over time, it doesn’t, it doesn’t just happen magically.

(30:54) You know, I mean, how many how many organizations have you worked for where you spend four months, you know, from August, through the end of the year, creating your plan and your budget for the next year, and you get the budget approved by finance on December 29, when everybody’s on vacation, and in February, if you were to ask most of the people what was in that plan, they would have no idea. (31:19) Right? (31:20) It’s completely gone.

(31:21) And the problem there is they’re not actually staying aligned, you know, you have to put energy into maintaining that alignment back to your, you know, objectives, or whatever your goals are throughout the whole team. (31:35) Or, you know, there’s just natural drift that occurs. (31:39) And pretty soon, you know, people are kind of doing their own thing or defaulting back to the way it used to be before the new strategy, you name it.

(31:47) But there, you’re, you’re, you’re wasting a lot of energy. (31:51) And that actually creates distrust. (31:54) Because then you don’t feel like, well, I think I’m doing this, but they’re doing something else.

(31:59) I don’t trust them anymore. (32:01) Right?

Melissa

(32:02) This episode is sponsored by Texas Freedom Fund. (32:06) If you’re an accredited investor looking (32:09) to protect your purchasing power, reduce taxes and own real Texas energy assets, (32:15) listen up the Texas Freedom Fund invest in proven oil and gas projects in the eager for sale with (32:22) no debt and strong tax advantages like intangible drilling costs applied against active income (32:29) minimum investment is 25,000 and the sponsor invests right alongside every single deal.

(32:36) Learn more at Texas Freedom Fund dot executive connect podcast.com energy opportunity and Texas grit working for your portfolio. (32:48) I love that because I think trust is lost quickly when you don’t do what you say you’re going to do. (32:53) And I’ll tell you, I’ve been part of organizations that either cut budgets or we’re going to do something and they didn’t, or they were sponsoring and they decided not to.

(33:04) And I’ll tell you, because there’s your company brand and then there’s your brand. (33:09) And often, you know, we’re attached to the companies we work for, but then there’s your own independent brand. (33:16) And the, I’ve been part of, you know, direction changes, budget changes.

(33:21) We’re not sponsoring this yet. (33:22) I gave my word to a client and there’s been time to keep trust in my relationships. (33:28) I’ve paid for things out of my own pocket because the company wasn’t going to keep their commitment.

(33:35) I decided personally, I was wanting to keep my commitment. (33:40) And it’s funny how, um, and, and by accident, one time a client found out about this because they noticed the credit card I was paying with was my personal credit card and had, it had been previously a corporate credit card with the corporation’s name on it. (33:58) And they came and they approached me and they’re like, are you paying for this out of your own money?

(34:04) And I was hesitant what to do at that point. (34:07) Right. (34:08) Because I didn’t, you know, want to, you know, make the company lose trust, right.

(34:14) I worked for with that customer, but I wanted to keep my trust and my, you know, authenticity. (34:21) And so I told the client and to this day, I am very close with that customer. (34:25) I am close friends with that customer.

(34:27) I am their confidant. (34:30) And because of, I made the decision, I wasn’t going to lose trust because the company I worked for did, you know, it was just a number. (34:39) It was just dollars to that.

(34:40) And that, you know, trust scales, right. (34:43) And because of that choice that I made, that same customer has been a referral for me for many different things, not even in my day job, but they have helped me, you know, do things in my personal life. (34:58) When I had my son, they mailed me gifts to my son.

(35:02) I mean, trust is a really important thing. (35:06) Um, and so kind of piggybacking off my story a little bit, um, you know, the reason the company pivoted is they were reinventing themselves. (35:15) They were changing direction.

(35:18) And so let’s talk a little bit about for the companies, you know, that are in this pivot stage and they’re reinventing what they do and how they do it. (35:28) Let’s talk about how they do that without burning the house down or losing the trust that they’ve built, um, with clients and companies. (35:38) So for executives building something beyond just their role, what’s the safest way to do that?

Rich

(35:46) Yeah. (35:46) So again, I think it’s really about transparency and, and being, you know, honest and authentic with people. (35:55) And I think that’s exactly what you did in the example that you gave, which was a great one.

(35:59) You know, you, you definitely did the right thing, you know, and, and all of us who’ve gotten to kind of C-suite or senior roles have all been put in those situations where you had made a commitment to somebody external, whether you were going to hire a person or buy from a particular vendor or increase your contract or continue your contract or continue a sponsorship. (36:22) We’ve all been in those situations where either you get an edict down that says, Hey, we’re changing direction and you got to go a different way. (36:30) Or there’s just the realities of the business change.

(36:34) And, you know, what, what, what we were doing, what we thought was working is not working. (36:38) So we need to make a change. (36:40) And, you know, those are uncomfortable conversations, but I think if you, if you go to whoever the counterparty is, and you’re just honest, like, Hey, here’s the situation, here’s where we are, you know, put your cards on the table and be straight with them.

(36:56) And usually they might be disappointed, but they’ll appreciate your honesty and appreciate you being up front. (37:04) And also be timely, right? (37:08) Bad news doesn’t get better with age.

(37:11) So as soon as you know it, be timely. (37:13) Cause if you can give, if you, you know, if, if the termination clause in your contract says you get 30 days and you’re 90 days out and you know, you’re going to terminate, don’t wait, right? (37:24) Tell them to say, Hey, we’re not likely to renew.

(37:28) I’m not giving you official notice yet. (37:29) Cause you know, we don’t, we don’t give you the official notice until X date, but Hey, I’m just telling you, we’re not going to renew. (37:36) So, you know, that, that speaks, you know, again, there’ll be disappointed that you’re bringing bad news, but the fact that you’re being straight and honest and timely and even proactive that counts for a lot.

(37:51) And, and that I think is probably really one of the key ways to main trust, maintain trust through those situations. (37:59) And frankly, improve your personal brand as well too, because yes, people associate you with your organization, but people still buy from people. (38:09) And that, that relationship is really important because they may move to another company.

(38:15) You may move to another company. (38:17) And as you said, every little piece of trust that you build with a person compounds exponentially over time, just like compound interest.

Melissa

(38:26) Yeah. (38:26) And it’s funny. (38:27) I’ve had more executive leaders call me and say, Hey, I’m trying to decide between this company and that company.

(38:35) And it’s not a company that I worked for. (38:37) And it’s not something that I, you know, know super well. (38:41) They’re like, Hey, do you know anybody over there or what do you think?

(38:44) And they’re asking for my opinion because they see me as, you know, somebody who, you know, understands an industry, understands the space, knows a lot of people in this space and, you know, values my opinion. (38:58) And I think if you can get in any business you’re in, if you could get to a place where your customers are calling you about things that you don’t even offer, they look at you as, you know, a friend, as a trusted advisor. (39:13) And that is the place to be when you’re selling things.

(39:17) Cause it’s not really, you know, sales. (39:19) I often joke. (39:21) I’m actually a civil engineer and I found my way into sales, not because I would, I identify as a salesperson.

(39:28) I, I found my way into sales is because I solve, you know, hard problems for people that they can’t find solutions for. (39:37) And I became a salesperson because of that. (39:40) And I’ve sold more things that I don’t even sell for a living to clients than I, than I ever sold for companies I’ve worked for just because of, you know, how I solve problems.

(39:53) But I want to talk a little bit. (39:54) I know a lot of people right now are in a place where they’re building a side hustle or they’re, you know, in this 90 day period where, you know, there’s going to be a lot of layoffs and they’re trying to figure out how do I build something while I’m still employed or serving out my time? (40:13) You know, what is your recommendation on how to build when still employed?

Rich

(40:17) Yeah, I would say, you know, a lot of people give advice to say that says you should do what you love. (40:25) And I don’t really think that that’s true or helpful. (40:29) I think really, you should follow your talent first, not your passion.

(40:34) So think about it. (40:35) Like, what are you and, you know, ask people, ask people you work with, ask your, your current boss, ask the people who report to you, your peers, ask your friends, the people who know you well to say like, Hey, when you think of me, what is it that I do that is unique that other people don’t do? (40:56) And I think that’s really important exercises to get out of your own head and ask others because frankly, their perception of you is what your brand is in the, you know, in, in the world.

(41:09) Right. (41:10) So you often will gain some great insights. (41:14) It’s like, yeah, okay.

(41:15) Yeah. (41:15) I, I am good at that, but I didn’t really think that was important. (41:18) And someone will tell you, it’s like, no, no, no, that, that thing, that capability that you have, that’s really unique.

(41:23) I don’t see that very much. (41:24) And you wouldn’t necessarily know that yourself. (41:27) And so like, ask those questions, find that thing, those things that you do that others don’t do.

(41:34) And that’s where you start. (41:36) Right. (41:37) That’s where you hit yourself.

Melissa

(41:39) And follow the money, right? (41:41) If you, you know, your joy is, you know, at X, you know, a thing, you’re not making any money at it. (41:49) It’s probably not the place you should, you know, work on your, your side hustle, or maybe you, you know, you could do a little bit of it on the side, but I also say follow the money.

(41:58) And so when is the right time for people to fully transition?

Rich

(42:03) Yeah. (42:04) You know, there, I wish I had a really good answer and I could pinpoint the, the point in time on that. (42:11) I would say though, it’s probably earlier than most people think, you know, the reality in life is that few decisions that you make are final or fatal.

(42:24) Most everything can be unwound and, you know, you can go back from so, and, and you can probably also survive on a lot less than you think you can survive on if you really tried. (42:39) Right. (42:40) So I think that, that, that fear of uncertainty and that fear of, you know, oh, well, I’m making this monumentous decision and this is going to change my, the rest of my life.

(42:53) And I’m going to have to go down this path. (42:54) And, you know, it’s, that’s not true, right? (42:59) You, you, you can pivot, you can make a change.

(43:02) So I think people wait too long, quite honestly, in many cases. (43:07) Now that’s not to say that, you know, you got to at least get to the point where, you know, you’ve got something, as you said, is it, is it something that’s generating any money? (43:17) If you’ve got a little, if you get a little bit coming in, you know what, you got to have some, some case that says, okay, yeah, I think I’ve got something here.

(43:26) You have to actually get it out in the market and try it for a little bit before you, you know, you really can make that jump. (43:33) But again, like don’t wait too long.

Melissa

(43:37) Yeah, I agree with you. (43:38) I love to end on that because it’s so true. (43:41) And you remind us that clarity, trust, and authority are what really turns ideas into actual results.

(43:47) So for founders and executives that are scaling companies, this isn’t optional. (43:52) It’s the foundation. (43:53) If you’ve enjoyed this episode of the executive connect podcast, share it with leaders that are building authority or scaling their company.

(44:01) For more information and content on strategy growth and leadership, subscribe to YouTube or follow us on your favorite platform. (44:09) Thank you so much for being here today, Rich, and sharing your knowledge with our listeners.

Rich

(44:15) Thanks so much for having me. (44:16) I really enjoyed the conversation.