Summary

In this episode of Executive Connect, Tanya Friedlander shares her journey from champion athlete to executive coach, highlighting the mental side of leadership and high performance. She explores the power of clear goal-setting, resilience in high-pressure environments, and the challenges executives face. Tanya emphasizes the value of deliberate practice, energy management over time management, and recognizing burnout. She also discusses the role of sleep and nutrition in sustaining performance. The conversation wraps up with insights on setting boundaries, achieving goals with ease, and the importance of taking action and learning from mistakes.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to High-Performance Coaching
01:34 The Journey from Athlete to Executive Coach
02:43 Defining Goals for High-Performing Teams
04:40 Challenges Faced by Executive Leaders
06:58 Building Resilience in High-Pressure Environments
09:21 The Mental Game of Leadership
10:59 Deliberate Practice and Mastery
12:55 Energy Management vs. Time Management
14:52 Recognizing Burnout and Its Signs
17:01 The Role of Nutrition and Sleep in Performance
19:04 Setting Boundaries for Focus and Productivity
21:16 Achieving Goals Effortlessly
23:55 Overcoming Analysis Paralysis
25:32 Integrating Personal and Professional Goals
27:45 The Importance of Reflection and Contribution
30:32 Taking Action and Learning from Mistakes

Transcript

Melissa Aarskaug (00:01.63)
Welcome to the Executive Connect podcast. Today we’re going to be talking with Tanya Friedlander about high performing teams and athletics. Welcome Tanya.

Tania Friedlander (00:14.091)
Hi, thank you so much for having me. So nice to be here.

Melissa Aarskaug (00:18.926)
Now you’ve had an incredible journey transitioning from law and now an executive high performing coach for some of the biggest names in the business. Let’s start with hearing a little bit about what inspired the shift and why you do executive coaching now.

Tania Friedlander (00:37.863)
thank you. Yes. So my journey started many, many years ago. So I had different careers in my lifetime. So I started as an athlete in table tennis, had a big passion for table tennis, competed national and international wide, was Vienna champion and one of the top Austrian players, and also competed internationally. And then I transitioned into law. So I’m a lawyer by training.

And I’m from Austria. I also lived in England. And when I moved to this country, to the US, I transitioned into coaching. And initially I combined my two passions of law and coaching. And so I was coaching a lot of lawyers. And then I started working with more leaders. And that is when I discovered my passion for leadership development. And I’ve been doing this work for almost a decade now.

And the way that I discovered it was more about that I was always fascinated by the mind and what makes people great. And I wanted to learn more about it. And so I discovered the field of positive psychology. And when I found it, I said, yep, that’s it. This is what I want to do. And I want help people to get clear on their goals, achieve their goals and move forward. And so I combined that with leadership development.

helping leaders step up their game and get to where they want to go.

Melissa Aarskaug (02:06.23)
I love that. think that makes you such a unique coach having law and all the frameworks that go into being attorney. And then the leadership side of being an athlete, an athlete, and especially in a high stake environment. So I want to talk a little bit about high performing teams and how companies can really bring that out in their employees now, and maybe share a little bit about some of the methodologies you use.

that has helped some of your clients transform their performance in the office and outside the office.

Tania Friedlander (02:43.781)
Yeah. So the number step, number one step is to really be clear on what it is that we actually want to achieve. And I think a lot of times when I initially speak to someone, it would always be extremely unclear. It’s like, I want to be a more impactful leader. I want to be a better leader. Right? What does that mean? Let’s break things down and say, what do you want to achieve in a year from now, in three years from now, in five years from now? Right?

So being really clear of what that would actually look like for you. How do you want your team to transform? What kind of changes do you want to see within, as an individual, as a leader, and as a company, and as an organization? What kind of changes do you want to see within your team? So that has to be from the get-go, really be clearly defined. And that is when the journey really starts. It’s getting really, I use a very customized approach to really identifying the core of the issue.

And for some organizations, it’s trust, not having psychological safety, not being able to speak up because they might be afraid of repercussions. For some people, it’s not having clarity of their role, you know, not really understanding where they belong and where they make the biggest difference. Cause there needs to be both from the organization and from, you know, your team, there needs to be maximum satisfaction and maximum value, right?

Like the employee, right, has to feel like they’re satisfied, but on the other side, they also need to feel, the company needs to feel like they’re getting the most value as well. So to bridge the two is where you really start to thrive. Does that make sense?

Melissa Aarskaug (04:24.992)
Yeah, definitely. And I know you’ve done coaching for large companies like Salesforce and Google. And I’m curious, what are some of the common challenges that executive leaders are facing today and how can you help them overcome these challenges?

Tania Friedlander (04:40.947)
So one of the biggest challenges is, you know, the market is constantly changing. It’s working under pressure. It’s that agility and being able to adapt under pressure. You know, when certain conditions are changing and the goalposts are changing, right? And that is what I learned actually. One of the most valuable lessons in table tennis, it’s you have a millisecond to react, to understand your opponent.

to know your strength, to understand where to put the emphasis and the focus on. And you have to do that so fast. And to do that is a real skill. And that really translates directly to leadership and how to adapt quickly within the changing circumstances.

Melissa Aarskaug (05:29.218)
Yeah, I love that you said that. think athletics has, I agree. I think athletics has helped me become a corporate athlete. Cause I think in today’s world, athletics translate, right? If you’re a executive, high stress, high pressure, constant changing. And a lot of the executives I know right now, Tanya, are traveling across countries.

internationally, different time zones. And a lot of times we forget that it’s not just eight to five. It’s, you know, we’re some executives are have jobs that are not only physical and emotional and mental. So we’re juggling all of our senses all the time, plus sleep deprivation. And so really getting your head in the game. And like you were saying, getting a plan on what are we trying to accomplish? think a lot of times

you know, in corporate America, we set so many goals. We need to, to sell while creating new systems, while delivering, wait, we want to sell it before we have it, you know, baked and ready to deliver. And so you really have to navigate all of this while you’re developing products, while you’re selling to clients and managing teams, right? So there’s a lot of emotions that go into that. So I want to kind of

Tania Friedlander (06:28.4)
Yes.

Tania Friedlander (06:36.859)
Right.

Tania Friedlander (06:50.821)
Absolutely.

Melissa Aarskaug (06:51.256)
pull back those layers and take a little bit deeper approach to kind of what that looks like today.

Tania Friedlander (06:58.395)
Yes, yes. that is really, you know, when we think of high performance, right, we, especially at high performance athletics, we think of the physical capabilities. But what you are describing and what I’ve also learned throughout, you know, my athletic years and being a champion athlete was the most valuable lessons were actually the mental game, you know, and the same psychological tools that

champion athletes can transform good leaders into exceptional ones. And so we really have to work much more on that resilience, the resilience that we need to build up to manage all of those different things that you just mentioned. There’s so many moving parts. How do we stay on top of the game when there is just so much demand?

Melissa Aarskaug (07:53.868)
Yeah, and I think resilience and whether you’re an athlete or not, resilience isn’t something that we wake up with and today we’re resilient. It’s something we develop and we work at, right? If you end your day and you’re really stressed out and you stay up late at night trying to get caught up at work and you wake up in the morning, you’re sleep deprived, you’re stressed out, you’re strung out, it’s really hard over time to stay resilient. So it’s really…

Tania Friedlander (08:17.65)
Yeah.

Melissa Aarskaug (08:23.47)
Like you were saying at the beginning, what is the goal? What is the mission? If you have 10 things that you’re focusing on, it’s really hard to accomplish the mission. And like you said, same thing with the mindset, right? Like you might have one thing you’re focusing on at your corporate job and you can’t deliver it until the product team finishes the product, right? And your job might be dependent on other people doing their job.

And so really getting your head in the game. I love what you’re saying. I think is so important not to lose hope, not to lose faith and to continue to persevere. I think we see this in sports. saw this during the Olympics. We see this in football. We’ve seen this with college football this year, underdogs winning. But it’s all of a sudden they could be up by a lot. And then in no time they’re…

Tania Friedlander (08:50.993)
Yeah.

Melissa Aarskaug (09:16.866)
you know, how many points behind and where did their mental mind game go? So I want to talk a little bit about like you were saying, the mental mind game in resilience as it pertains to corporate America and what executives can do to be resilient and have that strong mental mind game.

Tania Friedlander (09:21.627)
Yes.

Tania Friedlander (09:33.829)
Absolutely. mean, the first step is really to understand what are, you know, there are external expectations and internal expectations, right? External expectations of what the company, the organization is expecting of you as a leader. And then what are you expecting of yourself? And when we set so many different goals, we become so scattered. We can’t really measure progress. And when we can’t measure progress,

It kind of like really makes us feel like we’re not good enough because we can’t really see the, you know, how we are making progress. We have nothing to measure, right? Especially in that waiting period. Like you said, you’re waiting for a product to be, you know, delivered, right? That waiting game, right? Insecurities also we want to be, we are, are creatures of control. We are control freaks, right? We want to be in control when we have to delegate, when we have to wait on something.

we get nervous, we get tense, right? It’s that insecurity and uncertainty, right? So it’s really goes back to that mental game of how do I stay in the game when I’m not in control, right? When things are not in my control anymore. How can I work in my life and in my work and I look for control, right? What can I control? And so, you know, when you’re setting so many different goals, it’s like reflecting back and saying,

Okay, I have so many, you know, in order to not be so scattered. That is where being an athlete comes in so handy. I mean, the principles, because there is such a thing as called deliberate practice, right? Deliberate practice, the concept of taking one thing, one skill and always applying it and really making sure that you are constantly working on that one thing instead of 10 different things, right? You’re going to a practice session.

you’re focusing on developing that one skill. And that is your measuring. That’s how you measure. That is your goal. So you start practicing that one skill until you master it, right? And so I think so many times when we have this goal and that goal, you don’t feel like you’re making progress because you don’t feel like you’re actually mastering anything. So we can take this concept of deliberate practice and really apply it to how are we executing, how we’re applying this to what we’re doing right now.

Melissa Aarskaug (11:58.09)
Yeah. And I think of it like kind of like a hamster wheel. You could be running at your goal and you’re running on the hamster wheel running and you’re just kind of running in circles. And I think I also look at resiliency, like productivity too, in my world, because, know, back to the athletics, when I would have practices late in the evening, I wasn’t as fast of a runner, as good as weightlifting as I was in the morning.

Tania Friedlander (12:07.325)
Yeah.

Melissa Aarskaug (12:26.466)
So the other side of resilience is to understand when you’re the best. When are you the best focused? When are you the best all in? So sometimes it may take you an hour to get focused and get productive if it’s in the evening. And I have people I work with that they are so productive in the evening and that’s when they do their best work. So going back to resiliency, I think you need to understand you and what works best for you. Cause there’s no like perfect

Tania Friedlander (12:30.396)
Yes.

Tania Friedlander (12:44.913)
Yeah.

Tania Friedlander (12:50.631)
Yeah. Exactly.

Melissa Aarskaug (12:55.564)
you know, who’s resilient best when I think you really got to unpack when you work the best and how you work the best. it late at night? Is it in the morning and getting your mental mind game in that game.

Tania Friedlander (13:06.182)
Exciting player.

Tania Friedlander (13:10.595)
Exactly. building off of that is that, you know, so many times when we think of productivity, we think of time management, but more than time management, I say energy management. Because when you know what fills you, what energizes you and what drains you, you can position yourself. Like you said, where do I, you know, where do I function at my best? Is it in the morning? Is it in the afternoon?

You know, it’s not just time management. We all have limited amount of time, right? We all have the same amount of time, but energy is a whole different ball game. It’s like a, it’s like a phone that you charge, right? Like most people, they, you know, charge their phone. It’s almost like when, the battery is running out, you know, and that is what we do with our life. We go on vacation or we, need to take a break when our batteries run out, but really energy management is.

is preserving the battery, is charging it and understanding what charges me. What do I need a little bit to do more of than, what do I need to let go of and really lean in into so that I can feel more energized? And a lot of times people think that they’re overwhelmed and burned out because they do too much, but actually it’s they do too little of the things that energize them.

Melissa Aarskaug (14:36.846)
Let’s unpack that. love that because burnout you can’t you know find a scroll or anything anymore where we’re not talking about burnout and you know a lot of companies now are really focusing on that with their staff and their team so I know that you offer programs dedicated to burnout and I want to hear a little bit about what are some of the early warning signs for burnout as that leaders can pay attention to

Tania Friedlander (14:52.978)
Yeah.

Tania Friedlander (15:06.855)
Disengagement, demotivation, when you feel disconnected, when you’re just going through the trenches, but it’s like nothing excites you. So just kind of like this sense of disconnection and disengagement, lack of motivation. And those are early signs when you are like, okay, I’m having a hard time.

getting out of bed and just constantly in that cycle of exhaustion. Because burnout is more of a, there is overwhelm and there’s burnout, right? We can often feel overwhelmed, but burnout is over a longer period of time when it becomes a new way of being, when you’re just constantly running on such low energy, that is burnout. And it’s really also understanding that, you know, there’s some people that are just more prone to burnout. And many people don’t know that.

so some people are just more prone to burnout, like type a personalities, people that are having a hard time asking for help perfectionists. you know, so there is people that identify with the biggest part of who they are with their job.

So it’s also.

Melissa Aarskaug (16:24.172)
Yeah, and I also think for burnout for me too, I notice it’s also correlates to food, right? When I’m tired or stressed, I reach for things I would not otherwise ever reach for, you know, the kids food that I shouldn’t be eating. So also I think it’s what you’re picking up to eat and what you’re putting in your body to eat and drink. Is it more alcohol? Is it?

Tania Friedlander (16:39.036)
Yeah.

Tania Friedlander (16:48.891)
Absolutely.

Melissa Aarskaug (16:51.746)
You know, high sugary, high fat foods. it fast food? Are you not having the energy to put a nice meal together or healthy snacks as well? So diet is a part.

Tania Friedlander (16:55.345)
Bye!

Tania Friedlander (17:01.139)
Absolutely. Yes, and getting enough sleep, right? Those are like, you know, essentials. Those are essentials. I’m transitioning into is that mental aspect, because how many times have people gone on vacation or taken a break and still can’t switch off their constant on feeling, right? You might get a massage, you might get your nails done, you might go on vacation, but you still feel on.

That’s the mental game. That’s the internal expectations of yourself, the internal pressure that you’re feeling, right? That needs to be addressed because you can take all of the things that are being suggested, self care, right? All of those things, but people still struggle with switching off.

Melissa Aarskaug (17:52.001)
Yeah, and I love that you said that because that I was one of those people was past tense. And I’ve really leaned in last year to really focusing on taking the time off and putting the phone away and really getting right in myself and my and and what I need to do. Like you said, a massage, get my nails done, those things. And it’s amazing how much energy and how much

Tania Friedlander (17:56.52)
Yeah.

Melissa Aarskaug (18:21.524)
easier it is to come back to something when you’re rested. You have had the sleep you’re you’ve ate healthy. I mean, what might have taken eight hours could take half the time if you’re well rested and well organized with your thoughts versus really erratic with your thinking taking time to get focused and then refocusing and I know another thing I’ve been doing is shrinking my email, like turning my teams off turning my email down.

Tania Friedlander (18:24.413)
Yeah.

Tania Friedlander (18:33.863)
Yeah.

Tania Friedlander (18:37.683)
Absolutely.

Tania Friedlander (18:44.275)
Absolutely.

Melissa Aarskaug (18:50.754)
so I can focus on what I needed to focus. Otherwise it’s email pop-up, Teams pop-up, calls coming in and really manage my desk versus the day managing me.

Tania Friedlander (18:58.575)
Yes.

Tania Friedlander (19:04.987)
Yes, yes, exactly. You being in control and you kind of setting the boundaries, right? Setting boundaries of what do you want to protect, right? You want to protect your focus. You want to protect your mental capacities, right? Like that needs to be addressed. So we need to understand where do I need to set the boundaries? Maybe it’s like you said, the emails, the team meetings, all of those different

tools that we have and these days with, you know, the constant things popping up, it’s like endless, right? Like, it’s hard to switch off. There’s so much information being fed to us, right? So a lot of times what I do with my clients is like the start of the day. What do we typically do when we wake up? We look at our phone, we turn on the news, we read the papers, right? That’s information being

unloaded, right? Like really it’s feeding into you and whether you are aware of it or not, subconsciously it impacts you. So you might see that post first thing in the morning that makes you feel like not good enough. or you see something that somebody has achieved that you wanted to achieve. That impacts already the energy of your day. Or maybe you read a news of what is going on in the world and you’re like,

This is the end, you know? So it can really feed into that anxiety and really impact your productivity for the rest of the day. So instead of, you know, the world influencing you, it’s you being in charge and you saying, I’m going to start the day with something that fills me, right? Whether it’s meditating, whether it’s journaling, whether it’s praying.

whether it’s going for a run, right? Like whatever that is, it’s you starting the day you being in control and you influencing your mental mindset rather than the world influencing you.

Melissa Aarskaug (21:16.47)
Yeah, I love that. I also love Tonya one of your taglines I find it very inspirational as someone who has been a lifelong goal setter. I love your tagline achieve big goals effortly or really resonates with me because I’ve had big goals my whole life. Can you unpack a little bit about what effort effortless growth means and really how that all works?

Tania Friedlander (21:44.453)
Yes. So a lot of times people are very intrigued by the tagline because we always assume it needs to be hard, right? Like achieving big goals is hard. And here’s the difference. I’m not saying don’t work hard, right? We work hard, we play hard, but when you tap into your strengths and I use a strength-based approach, everything changes, right? When you access your strengths and you have, first of all, understand what

have a clear picture of what your strengths are. You really claim them. You don’t, take our strengths for granted. We don’t see them as anything special. So we don’t appreciate and nurture our own strengths cause it’s like, yeah, of course that’s what you do. It’s like, no, some, for some people, those things are really hard, but we take our own strengths for granted. So we really need to reclaim our strengths and say, yes, that’s me. And then apply them to our goals.

The whole journey looks different. And so it becomes effortless because then all you do is what you do best every day. You know? And so that is how you can change the way you work. When you really understand and have a, you know, kind of like a process, it’s called name it, claim it, aim it. Name it. What is it? Identify it. To claim it, make it your own. Right?

And number three, aim it. Aim it to a specific goal. And when you do that, the journey becomes effortless.

Melissa Aarskaug (23:16.471)
I love that.

I love that, that’s really good, a really good analogy. Name it, aim it.

Tania Friedlander (23:26.959)
Name it, claim it, it.

Melissa Aarskaug (23:28.686)
it, claim it, there we go. Name it, claim it, aim it. I love that. know right now, I think there’s a sense of a lot of people are feeling stuck. They don’t wanna leave their company. They don’t wanna go. They feel like they want something else. They’re unsure. They’re like analysis paralysis, unsure how to move forward in their career. What advice would you give those people?

Tania Friedlander (23:55.379)
Well, first of all, understand what you’re really great at. You know, and if you are stuck in analysis paralysis, that might be your greatest strength. But analyze the right things. You know, we can get stuck. You know, a lot of times our biggest, you know, our biggest strength can seem like our biggest weakness. Like a lot of times people can come to me and they say everything that’s wrong with me, right? Ask them.

What’s right with them? They will give you really mediocre answers. Ask them what’s wrong with them. They will give you an entire list. You know? So I really understand, you know, what that looks like. And then as you start seeing, as you’re going through this journey, oftentimes what you think is your biggest weakness is actually your biggest strength. It’s just a strength is only a strength when you productively apply it. And most of the time people just don’t productively apply their strengths. So they look like weaknesses.

Just like analysis paralysis, you can overthink things, right? But take a step back and say, what kind of things do I like to analyze? Where is it serving me and where is it not serving me? And then, you know, taking that understanding, what are your strengths? You know, what excites you? What is of interest to you? Where do you find meaning and purpose, right? And then connecting.

you know, those different, you know, types of like what you’re excited about, what your purpose is, what you mean, where you find meaning with your strengths combined will give you more of an answer of what it is that you want to do.

Melissa Aarskaug (25:32.768)
I love that. And I think for me, a lot of times my strengths are the same personally and professionally. I use them the same way when I set personal goals versus professional roles, because they all really tie together. And how do you encourage people to really set these kinds of goals? Because like you were saying, you don’t want to…

Tania Friedlander (25:43.943)
Yes.

Melissa Aarskaug (25:55.438)
have a bunch of different goals and then we’re not accomplishing anything. So how do you work with clients to set not only just professional goals for their jobs and their professional career, but also personal goals and how those kind of work together?

Tania Friedlander (26:11.621)
I would really zoom out. I like to call it the balcony view. When you’re like on the balcony and you kind of like see an overview, it’s almost like a movie of your life, right? And if you, you know, what would a fulfilling and meaningful life look like for you? Right? It’s almost like if you wrote a book, you know, what kind of chapters would be in that book? What would you include in that book? Right?

What do you want to write about? What is it something that you’re missing in your life that you’d like to have more of?

So that will really give you a good idea of what kind of goals to set, whether it’s professional or personal. Like, for example, I didn’t play table tennis in so many years, but I really started noticing that this was such a big part of who I am and what I thrive in and what fills my cup. That became part of my personal goal to play again.

Melissa Aarskaug (27:16.204)
That’s great advice. I think a lot of times we forget that, right? We forget kind of the fun of living and it’s not just constant achieving and constant goals. It’s really life just is passing all of us by so fast and really like you were saying, setting these big goals and effortlessly achieving them. And like you mentioned, I absolutely agree with the battery. Looking at your day, you have so much

Tania Friedlander (27:24.945)
Yes.

Tania Friedlander (27:40.006)
Yes.

Melissa Aarskaug (27:45.402)
You have 168 hours in a day, how are you spending it? Are you spending it on things that zap that battery or are you spending it on things that really move you and you’re passionate about doing? think your mindset will be much different if you’re doing things that make you feel energetic versus not.

Tania Friedlander (28:05.423)
Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And I often, I have like some sort of an audit, you know, an audit where you can really go through your day and kind of like analyze what just drained me, why do I feel drained? And there are different things that can drain us, you know, when it comes to burnout, are different types of burnout. There is a mental burnout, there is emotional burnout, there is physical burnout, right?

So, you know, physical burnout are some of the things that we talked about in terms of sleep and eating, exercising, right? Those are physical, but then there is a mental, right? Focus, resilience, like those kinds of things. And then there is emotional, are we feeling our cup? Do we have a time and space to express our emotions, right? Or are they just being kind of like suppressed?

So we also need to take care of our emotional wellbeing. And then there is spiritual, right? Do we feel connected? Do we feel like we have a purpose and meaning in our life?

Melissa Aarskaug (29:17.174)
Yeah, I love that. think that’s a really great analogy. Tonya, I love everything that you shared today. Is there anything that we may have missed that you want to share with our listeners today?

Tania Friedlander (29:30.455)
I think one thing that I would love to add is, you know, sometimes we can feel burned out because one thing that we often have to reassess and ask ourselves so that we feel good enough, so that we feel like we’re accomplishing is when my life to feel that I can contribute the most, you know, and, and that often fills our cup because we all have a way to contribute.

So for those seeking either and trying to understand their next steps and kind of like going through reflection and thinking about where to go next in their life is to ask themselves, where do I want to contribute the most? And that will often reveal a lot of insight for yourself. That’s it. Yes.

Melissa Aarskaug (30:17.26)
And then take action, right? I think that’s another really important part of goal setting is if, you know, you’re setting goals and you’re not moving and taking action to achieve those goals, you can spend a lot of time hoping, wishing, praying, meditating on your goals, but go out and make mistakes, be messy with it, learn from it. And you might find that the goals you set are not something you want to do. And you might reset new goals.

Tania Friedlander (30:32.09)
Exactly.

Tania Friedlander (30:37.966)
Exactly.

Tania Friedlander (30:43.933)
Yeah.

Melissa Aarskaug (30:47.054)
I know people, Tanya, that flashed right when the pandemic happened, they were let go from their career in 2020. They decided it was a perfect time to start a business. They had already wanted to start a business. They did it. And then they decided business ownership wasn’t for them. And it made them really appreciate being a corporate employee and a W2 person and a different way of looking at things. And so they reset different goals and nothing’s

Tania Friedlander (30:47.12)
Exactly!

Tania Friedlander (31:14.225)
Yes.

Melissa Aarskaug (31:15.507)
finite and definite, set it and then take action.

Tania Friedlander (31:19.609)
Exactly. Absolutely. Absolutely. It’s the only way for you to build that resilience and also, you know, to understand like all the actions that you’re taking are feedback, you know, and that is what we learn in in being an athlete. Right. Like, you know, by default that you’re going to lose games. You’re not always going to win, but you take all of that as information, as data points, and you always just improve.

What are you going to do better this time? So when people are afraid to make mistakes, it’s like, take that as information. Take this as data points to learn from, to understand what’s working and what’s not as feedback so that you can always improve your game. You know, the same goes in our professional and personal life. It’s always going to help you.

Melissa Aarskaug (32:09.806)
That’s great. Yeah, I love that. That’s really great advice. I want to thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and your time today with our listeners. And that’s the Executive Connect podcast.

Tania Friedlander (32:16.275)
Thank you.

Tania Friedlander (32:24.669)
Thank you.

Melissa Aarskaug (32:26.862)
Thanks so much. Rafferty is still there. I wonder if we lost him. Let me just message him. That was great. So we’re like, it was great. Really good.

Tania Friedlander (32:36.979)
How did it go?