Ever wondered how cybersecurity principles can fix your marriage?
David Kiwimagi, a cyber incident response manager turned marriage coach, shares the
legendary “Lasagna Story” – a hilarious tale of unspoken expectations, hard-boiled eggs, and
the culinary crime that nearly destroyed his marriage.
In this Executive Connect podcast episode, discover the 3 game-changing principles David
learned from cybersecurity that transformed his marriage AND his leadership:

00:00 – Episode Preview & The Lasagna Story Hook
01:25 – Sponsor Segment: David & Alexis Kiwi Coaching
02:05 – Podcast Introduction & Guest Welcome
03:15 – The Complete Lasagna Story: Unspoken Expectations
05:00 – How Silence Built Resentment in Marriage
07:30 – The Business Crisis & Coaching Transformation
11:30 – Three Key Principles for Relationship Success
12:15 – Principle #1: Turning Unspoken Expectations into Agreements
17:30 – Principle #2: His Business, Her Business, Not Your Business
24:00 – Principle #3: You & Me vs. The Problem
28:00 – Cybersecurity Meets Emotional Intelligence
31:30 – Leadership Advice for Tech Professionals
33:30 – The Lasagna Story Conclusion
36:00 – Final Thoughts & Contact Information
This isn’t just marriage advice – it’s a masterclass in emotional intelligence for high-performing
professionals. Whether you’re leading SOC teams, managing incident response, or navigating
entrepreneurial partnerships, these insights will revolutionize how you handle conflict.

David Kuimagi [00:00]
Ever try to fix a marriage the same way you fix a cyber security breach? The lasagna story is
kind of three parts. I asked my wife, can you make my favorite childhood meal? The one my
mom had made every year for my birthday. She made it. I was sitting at the kitchen table. She
sets it down in front of me.
Oh, the aroma hit me. It smelled amazing. And I had these really high hopes. I was like, oh my
gosh, this smells good. They were pretty much shattered. I peeked in between the noodles and
there was hard boiled eggs.
So do I tell my wife, my brand new wife who’s glowing with pride, that her lasagna has just
committed the unforgivable culinary crime? Most arguments too come from unspoken
expectations. It’s you and me versus the problem. When you focus on what’s in your circle of
influence and you let go of control and trying to focus and control other people’s, your anxiety
level massively decreases.
David Kuimagi [01:00]
Ten years later, she made the walk to my mom’s house and she sat down at the kitchen table
with my mom. She looked across at her and said, I gotta know, what’s this recipe that David
loves? I’ve tried everything. I’ve given up. Can you just share with me this amazing recipe that
he apparently loves? My mom looked at her and she said, what recipe? I always bought it
frozen from the store.
Sponsor Segment
Host (Melissa) [01:25]
This episode’s sponsor is a couple I absolutely love, David and Alexis Kiwi. They help power
couples be successful at home just like they are at work. If you’re crushing it in the business
world, but quietly disconnected from your spouse, you’re not alone. Check them out at
DavidandAlexisKiwi.org. They have spent years creating a simple tool set that will help you save
your marriage. Don’t forget to use code Executive One to save $500 off their six-week coaching
program. DavidandAlexisKiwi.org. Code Executive One.
Podcast Introduction
Host (Melissa) [02:05]
Ever try to fix a marriage the same way you fix a cybersecurity breach? David Kumagi did sort of
that. He’s a cyber incident response manager by day and a husband who tried to solve a
lasagna-related standoff by staying silent. Spoiler alert, it didn’t work.
On today’s Executive Connect podcast, David’s cracking open what the world of incident
response taught him about emotional intelligence, clear communication, and yes, how to win an
argument and secure networks without burning down the house. Get ready for insights that go
beyond the firewalls. Welcome, David.
David Kuimagi [02:55]
Thank you, Melissa. I’m excited to be here.
The Complete Lasagna Story
Host (Melissa) [03:00]
Now, you used to manage critical incidents in high-pressure environments, but let’s rewind a bit
to a different kind of incident. I’m talking about the lasagna moment. Can you walk us through
that? What happened and what did it reveal?
David Kuimagi [03:15]
Absolutely. So the lasagna story is kind of three parts. We’ll go over those throughout this
podcast. But it really started back when me and my wife were first married. I was working in
healthcare doing emergency response management. I was working on the truck, and we’d been
married about a year, and I asked my wife, can you make my favorite childhood meal, the one
my mom had made every year for my birthday?
Yes. I know. I did not set her up for success with that request because I had some expectations
like, yeah, I got a standard here. She did. She was like, absolutely. I got you. I’m going to go
make you a lasagna. She got her grandmother’s recipe. She shopped for all the ingredients.
She made it. I was sitting at the kitchen table. She sets it down in front of me.
Oh, the aroma hit me. It smelled amazing. And I had these really high hopes. I was like, oh, my
gosh. This smells good. They were pretty much shattered when my fork started to dig in. And I
hit something like rubbery but not like a noodle, like bad rubbery. And I peeked in between the
noodles, and there was hard-boiled eggs.
And I’m sitting there, and I’m thinking, that’s not how my mom made it. This is going through my
head, right? So do I tell my wife, my brand-new wife who’s glowing with pride, that her lasagna
has just committed the unforgivable culinary crime, or do I just stay silent and eat it like a good
husband?
David Kuimagi [04:40]
The truth was I really didn’t know what to say. I was afraid of her reaction, and I was afraid to
hurt her feelings. So I stayed silent. I kept my mouth shut. I swallowed my pride. I swallowed the
lasagna, but it didn’t taste good, the lasagna especially, but also to just stay silent.
How Silence Built Resentment
David Kuimagi [05:00]
That’s not the first time that either one of us stayed silent throughout our marriage. In fact, over
the years, when something happened and we had an unspoken expectation that went unmet,
we just shut down. And this started to build, honestly, a little resentment in our marriage.
Things really came to a head, though, a few years back when my wife came to me, and she’s
like, let’s start a business together. I’m like, that’s a great idea. Anyway, long story short, about
$30,000 in. We’re not getting profit. We’re not getting – we’re not productive, and we’re really
just out of head, to the point my wife gave me an ultimatum. She’s like, we need some coaching,
some help, or something, or we’re done. And she meant done in both business and possibly
marriage.
The Coaching Transformation
David Kuimagi [05:45]
We reached a point where we were like something had to change. And so she’s like, I found this
coaching. I want to do this, this strengths-based coaching. And I literally thought, I’ve already
invested so much money into this business. How much is this going to cost? I kind of reached a
dead point, but I also realized something had to change.
So we shifted our commitment, we shifted our focus, and we took the training. And it is not like
counseling. We tried that. That did not work. And it wasn’t like therapy. It was coaching. It’s a
coach on basketball, right? They’re going to come up to you and be like, this is what you’re
doing well. You need to do it better. This is what you’re good at. Focus on this. It’s a total
different approach.
David Kuimagi [06:30]
Well, sure enough, in just a few weeks, my wife and I learned about each other’s strengths and
what we’re good at and what we operate well in. And we realized we were trying to force each
other to be like the other person. And we’re like, oh my gosh, I’m so sorry. You have so much
value to you. You have so much capability. And I started just seeing her differently, and she saw
me differently.
Now, unlike in the first lasagna moment, I didn’t know what to say. I know exactly what to say
and how to say it in a way that she feels it. I was afraid of her feelings. I was afraid I’d hurt him. I
know exactly how she feels. In every scenario, I know what drives her and what her motivations
are. And I was afraid of her reaction. Now I value it.
David Kuimagi [07:15]
In fact, for this very podcast, I’m like, hey, I got this thing. I want to do this. What is your thoughts
on it? Do you want to join me? Some podcasts we joined together today, she’s sick,
unfortunately. She won’t be joining us. But it completely changed everything. Now we have a
thriving business. It is booming. We are loving it, and we’re working together on a whole new
level.
The most amazing part, when we got done, she came to me and she’s like, I want to do this for
other couples. I want to share this for other couples. And that’s how we got started in our
coaching business.
The Three Key Principles
Host (Melissa) [07:45]
I love it. So after the lasagna slowdown, there was a huge shift, like you mentioned, for the two
of you guys. Something clicked. What helped you guys realize things had to change? Was there
a specific moment? I know it wasn’t just at home, but it was professionally. And you really
pivoted how you both communicate in general, not only in your marriage, but outside the world.
So was there a specific change that happened, or was it the training?
David Kuimagi [08:10]
Well, so before training, it felt like date nights were business meetings. It felt like quality time
together was more just a checklist. And I was from corporate America. I’d been working
cybersecurity. When you have an incident and you have a full threat ransomware, it’s like, let’s
go, let’s do this, and I just take charge. I’m very strong at command, which makes me good at
handling high-intensity incidences.
Well, my wife is really good at relationships. And so someone who comes in and says, you
should do this, that goes well in a relationship. And when I started to realize through the
coaching how she thinks and how she’s wired, it changed everything for me. And she started to
see me.
David Kuimagi [08:50]
So now it’s like I appreciate how you feel in this situation, and I honor your thoughts in this.
Show me what it was like from your perspective. Her insights, now that I see the world through
her eyes differently, has helped me on the cyber side as well. In high-intensity situations, like
you got ransomware, you got stuff going on, people are getting hacked, and they’re freaking out
and they’re panicking. I have so much more emotional intelligence now because I’m married to
her, and I’ve been listening to her. And that helped me at my work substantially when I was
working with corporate America.
Host (Melissa) [09:20]
And I love that you explained that because what I heard was you listened to her, not the way
you needed her to speak, but you actually listened to her from her perspective. You took off your
hat and put on her hat and listened. And I love that you are layering cybersecurity into it
because you’re so spot on. We’re reactive. We respond. We engage. We don’t ask those softer
questions. We don’t open up what’s under the hood. We just see the problem go after it. It’s the
fight-or-flight response in cybersecurity.
Principle #1: Turning Unspoken Expectations into Agreements
Host (Melissa) [09:50]
So you’ve talked about three big shifts that have helped you grow online, both in your personal
life and your work. Can you walk us through what those three key things that changed
everything for you were?
David Kuimagi [10:10]
Oh, absolutely. There were three, like, key moments that shifted us in our marriage, in our
business, and then I taught them to everybody at my work after I had learned them, and it
changed everything. So the first one was how to turn unspoken expectations into agreements.
And we all have them. Everybody has unspoken expectations.
Like back when I was first married, you know, we’d been a couple years. We had our first kid,
and I’m driving home from work. You know, cybersecurity is stressful. And I get home from work,
and I’m in the driveway walking into the front door, and I have an expectation. I’m going to be
just real and vulnerable. I was newly married, so don’t hold this against me.
David Kuimagi [10:50]
I expected, oh, I’d walk in, and the house would be clean because my wife’s a stay-at-home
mom, right? And so she has plenty of time to clean the house. And then I’d go in, and dinner
would be made, and we’d have dinner, and I’d play with my son and my newborn, and we’d just
have a good time, and then we’d spend some time as a family and go to bed, right? And it would
just be a wonderful evening.
Well, I unlocked and opened the front door, and reality hit. I navigated the landmines of the
activities of the day, stepping over toys. I walk into the kitchen to not find dinner, but alas,
breakfast still on the counter. And my wife is sitting on the ground with a baby stuck to her chest,
and so I asked the good husbandly question, so what’d you do all day? I’m still alive.
David Kuimagi [11:35]
But I did. We had these expectations. And then, of course, in moments like that, whether it’s a
ruined lasagna, whether it’s asking your boss for a raise, or whether it’s getting into situations at
work that are high-intensity, we have an expectation of how they’re going to go.
In that moment, trying to solve the unspoken expectation usually doesn’t go well, because – and
you nailed it – the fight-or-flight response. People get into these high-intensity situations where
they’re super disappointed. Now they’ve got cortisol levels that are high. Now it gets stressful,
and then boom, you’re in an argument. Most arguments, too, come from unspoken
expectations.
David Kuimagi [12:10]
So there’s a way to solve those. You can do this as a boss with your employees. You can do this
with your spouse. You can do this with your manager, if that’s in your position, where you sit
down and say, I want to do an exercise with you. I want to create our unspoken expectations
into agreements. And here’s what you do. You get three pieces of paper each.
So in this case, I’m with my wife. And on the top of each piece of paper, you write your name,
you write their name, and then you write both. Now here’s what I recommend. If you are an
entrepreneurial couple, which is what we mainly work with, that you sit down and you pick a
category. So, for example, like the housework or the business, right? Because these lists can
get really long if you put it all in one.
David Kuimagi [12:50]
And we do this like once a month. We actually sit down and we re-evaluate this quite often. And
we’ll say, all right, for the business, I am on my list. I handle Facebook ads. I handle training the
new people. I handle training the new coaches. And my wife does the webinars and does the
one-on-ones, right? And then on both, things that we work on together, like creating new ads.
We have so much fun with that. So we put that on both.
Now, when you’re done, no cheating, no looking at each other’s notes. I do recommend you do
this with food because that just makes everything better. And then you sit down and you
exchange notes when you’re done. If you’re first married or you’re newly married or you’re newly
working with someone, it’s probably not going to match. And that’s okay. That’s expected.
David Kuimagi [13:35]
Now, though, you are outside of the moment where the expectation has been crashed or
dashed, right? And you can actually have a discussion saying, okay, I put laundry, like we did
household, right? I put laundry on your work, honey. And she’s like, well, I put it on yours.
So now we get to negotiate a little bit. We’re like, okay, cool. Neither one of us like laundry. But
why don’t we try something? How about you wash it and bring it up to the bedroom and dump it
on the floor? I will fold it and put it away. So I don’t have to worry about keeping track of all the
cycles of laundry throughout the day. But at the end of my day, I sit down and I fold laundry. This
is actually our current plan. What’s going on right now? And it works great.
David Kuimagi [14:20]
And we’re like, okay, we both agree. We both hate it, but we’re getting it done. So it turned into
the both category. But when you handle unspoken expectations outside of the moment when
they’re not met, you can actually resolve them and turn them into agreements. Because, as a
warning, unspoken expectations, speaking from experience, when left that way are like seeds of
resentment that can grow in the garden of your relationship.
Host (Melissa) [14:50]
And I love that. I got to unpack that. So when you’re saying this, I’m thinking unspoken
expectations are rooted in so many breakdowns. I think of like gifts from, you know, I don’t need
anything for this, my birthday or Mother’s Day. But really, a lot of times women do want
something, but they don’t want to have to ask for it. And men want other things that they don’t
want to have to ask for. So how did you learn how to move from assumptions to agreements?
David Kuimagi [15:20]
Oh, hands down. I see. So perfect example. I like when you talked about gifts. A lot of couples
have learned their love languages. They learn the love language of the other spouse. Love
languages are really big because it’s like learning another language. You may be outside of the
Kremlin, right? And you’re trying to take a picture in Russia, and everyone around you is
speaking Russian. And you don’t understand a lick of it.
And it’s just kind of like wah-wah, wah-wah, wah-wah, like the teacher from Peanuts or
something. It doesn’t make sense. But then all of a sudden you hear someone yell, hey, over
here. This is a great place to take a picture. You immediately tune into that because that’s your
native language.
David Kuimagi [16:05]
So a lot of times people will have native languages in their love languages. Like for me, I’m
touch, but my wife is time. And so for me, I go by. I give my wife a hug. I give her a kiss on the
cheek, and I’m good. I’m fed. I moved on. But I always speak in French, and she don’t speak
French. Whereas she’s time, and she’s like, will you stop cleaning? Will you just sit down and
spend time with me? I was like, what do you mean? I love you. I’m trying to clean.
So when you identify an area – and here’s the easiest way to identify an area where there is an
unspoken expectation. It frustrates you to think about it. When you recall that memory, when you
recall that moment, you’re like, ooh, I don’t like that. There’s a reason. There’s an expectation
there that’s not being met.
David Kuimagi [16:45]
So I’m like, I’m mad at my wife this morning, and I’m like, why am I mad? Oh, because her
meeting was supposed to end at 8 because I had an 8 o’clock meeting, and she’s not upstairs
yet. So I had an expectation that she would be timely in with her meetings, but it ran over. So
then I was like, okay, let me write that down. Best thing to do, take note of those moments, and
then don’t deal with them in the moment. Sit down, have a date night, do the exercise, and go
through each other.
What really does help too is picking a category. I’m going to say that again just because it’s
really important. If it’s housework, pick housework. If it’s business, it’s pick business, and stick
with that. You’re welcome to do all the above. I just wouldn’t do them all at the same time
because it’s just a long list.
Principle #2: His Business, Her Business, and Not Your Business
Host (Melissa) [17:30]
I love that. Okay, so that’s principle one. What is principle two?
David Kuimagi [17:35]
All right, so you have turning unspoken expectations into agreements, and this one released a
lot of the pressure for me at work as well as in our house. This one’s called his business, her
business, and not your business. I’ve also heard it taught your business, their business, and
God’s business. But his business, her business, and not your business is an understanding of
mind shift.
I am responsible and have full control over everything I feel, think, do, and create. One of the
really powerful stories that I was reading is a guy who survived the Holocaust, and he had very
little control over his environment. But he came out the other side incredibly mentally strong,
forgiving his captors, and just like, wow, what happened? He said, I had still full control of my
thoughts. No one could take that from me, and I was like, ooh, that’s some powerful stuff right
there.
David Kuimagi [18:25]
And so when you say I have full control over my thoughts, my feelings, my emotions, what I
think, do, and create, it means if I control what I think, I can control what I do. Because thoughts
turn into actions. Actions become habits. Habits define your character, and your character will
shape your destiny. So if you want a better future, change the way you’re thinking.
Now, here’s where it gets dangerous. You are not responsible for, thus, her business, right, in
my case. What she thinks, feels, does, and creates. So this concept of I can create an
environment, I’m responsible for that, one where my wife feels loved. My wife’s love language is
time.
David Kuimagi [19:10]
And so I set up what I call couch time, and I set aside where the kids are distracted for five
minutes. We can sit on the couch, hold each other’s hands, look into each other’s eyes, and
spend some time together, right? I try to do that. I really make an effort to do that. But if she
doesn’t feel loved in that, that is not my responsibility. My responsibility was to create the
environment.
This was a profound concept for this one lady. We were teaching this in a class, and she goes,
and we’re like, whoa, are you okay? She’s like, 90% of my anxiety is because I’m constantly
focusing on how my husband feels. I’m like, yeah, you are not responsible for his feelings.
You’re responsible for the environment you create. And if you focus on that, you don’t have to
worry about his feelings. He’ll take care of those. And she’s like, oh, my gosh, I’m going to try.
David Kuimagi [20:00]
So for the next, I think, week and a half, she was like, I’m just focusing on the environment I’m
creating that he feels loved in it. She’s like, it exploded because I’m no longer asking him all
these do you love me questions, right? He’s like, wow.
The last but not least, too, this one is really hard. Perfect example. I just had a conversation with
this with a director of a SOC, and this is what we call God’s business or not your business. This
is things that are completely outside your control and the control of others. So think about, like,
a hurricane, right? An act of God.
David Kuimagi [20:30]
If the hurricane is coming in Florida, I can sit here and I can stress about it all I want, but all that
does is cause me anxiety. When I focus on what I think, feel, do and create and I let God handle
what he feels, thinks, does and creates or not my business, then I focus on what can I create?
Well, I can create an evacuation plan. I can create a disaster recovery plan. I can create an
incident response plan. I can have this ready to rock and roll. So when disaster strikes, I have a
plan.
When you focus on what’s in your circle of influence and you let go of control and trying to focus
and control other people’s, your anxiety level massively decreases.
David Kuimagi [21:10]
Perfect example of this. So part, I guess, part three of four or part two of four of the lasagna
story. That lasagna my wife made, I ate a piece because I was a good husband. I ate a piece.
But then she made a nine by 13 pan of it and she put it in the fridge. Well, you can kind of guess
how this goes. So I go to work and I’m opening the fridge and I’m looking for food and I’m like
lasagna, moldy cabbage. I’ll take this.
I didn’t eat it. I didn’t touch it. She was so mad at me because she’s like, you didn’t like my
lasagna. You didn’t. You should have eaten it. And she was in my business. She was in what I
think, feel, do and create. And she got very upset about it. In fact, she made five different
recipes over the first couple years of our marriage. I didn’t like any of them. I didn’t eat any of
them.
David Kuimagi [21:55]
Oh, she knows this. It’s really fun when we get to share this story together because she tells her
perspective of it as well. But yeah, that’s a perfect example. She was focusing on what was
outside of her control. When you focus on what you can control, let me take this from like a
cyber perspective. I cannot control the ransomware that went into a system, but I can control
how I’m prepared for it and how to handle it. I cannot control the fact that someone’s going to try
to scan and attack my network, but I can control how my defenses are ready for it.
And so stop stressing about what’s outside your control. Focus on what’s inside your control and
then rock it. When you put all your mental energy into what’s inside your control, you are way
more prepared to handle the stuff that’s outside your control.
Host (Melissa) [22:35]
I love that. That’s so good. So many questions in that. And I think a lot of time kind of going back
to your analogy where she was supposed to be, you know, you were supposed to be on a call at
eight and she was running late from a meeting. Now, how do you figure out whose business is
whose? Like whose is more important at that point? Like how does that, you know, agreement
work with whose business are you at that time?
David Kuimagi [23:00]
A lot of it actually goes back to the first exercise, right? You sit down, you’re like, OK, I have
these expectations that you are going to create the ad for this week or whatever the case is.
And I didn’t create it. She’s like, wait, I thought you were going to do that. Well, that was an
unspoken expectation. So when you sit down and you have a meeting like, OK, this is within my
business.
One of the things we teach people to is to operate within their strengths. We use something
called Gallup Clifton Strengths to help them understand who they are as a person. And oh, my
gosh, that was amazing. That is incredible. And so for me, I’m high influencing. I’m really good
at winning people over, having conversations. So a lot of the podcasts we do, the webinars, any
public speaking on stages. I was just at a summit a couple of weeks ago. I do that because I
love it. I eat it up. I love this stuff.
David Kuimagi [23:45]
But my wife is really good at community. So she does like the webinars where we do
one-on-one teachings. She does a lot of the training and coaching directly with people. She also
really helps wives understand their husbands because she’s helped me with that and vice versa.
She’s really good at connecting people. She’s also really good at coming up with ideas. So
when we sat down with our business and we said, OK, I’m good at this. I’m just going to own it.
And she’s like, I’m good at this. I’m going to own it. When you operate in what you love to do, it
brings so much satisfaction.
Principle #3: You & Me vs. The Problem
Host (Melissa) [24:15]
Oh, I love that. That’s so good. OK, so I’m going to pause on two. We’re going to put a pin in
two, and we’re going to move to the third key. Tell us what the third key is.
David Kuimagi [24:25]
OK, third part to the lasagna story. I was at work, and this was back probably about six years
ago. And my boss and I were just in the break room talking about our favorite meals. Well, of
course, I mentioned lasagna. And he goes, oh, man, my wife makes an amazing lasagna. I’ll
have her make you one, and you can take it home to your wife and kids.
All I could think was, oh, God, please don’t. Like, I’m going to get in so much trouble. The next
day, I show up at work. In the work break room fridge is a 9 by 13 pan with kiwi written across
the top. I open it up. It’s lasagna, and it looked good.
David Kuimagi [25:00]
So I bumped into my boss, and he’s like, did you see it? He gave me instructions. And so I
thought, do I take this home and possibly have a fight with my wife, or do I leave it here and
disappoint my boss? But I also thought, this might be the first time in my marriage I’ve actually
had good lasagna. So I took it home.
My wife finds it. She opens the fridge. She sees it. She goes, what’s this? She talks just like this,
too. And I’m like, food? She’s like, where’d you get it? My boss’s wife made it. I will never forget
her words. She goes, hmm. Closes the fridge. She looks at me, puts her hands on her hips, and
says, couldn’t get it from your wife, so you had to get it from another man’s wife, huh?
And thus was one of our greatest arguments ever.
David Kuimagi [25:45]
And so everyone has them. Everybody ends up in somebody else’s business, and then we end
up in a fight over it. So how do you win every argument every time guaranteed? Again, a lot of
this is a mindset shift in perspective. If you think back to when you’re first married, and you’re
holding hands at the altar, and you’re looking at each other, you’re googly-eyed, and you’re like,
I’ll take on the world with you.
But then the kids come along, and then you start a business together. And now it’s like, you’re
the problem. You’re the problem. You’re the problem. You’re the problem. And that’s how it goes.
The truth is, it’s not you’re the problem. It’s not someone has to lose. It’s not happy wife, happy
life. That actually ends up in kind of resentful husband, to be honest. And you want a happy
marriage.
David Kuimagi [26:25]
So here’s the shift. It’s you and me versus the problem. Let’s take this from like a management
perspective. Say we have a manager, and he’s told he has to cut costs. And you have an
employee who wants a raise. And they have a meeting. You can see how that goes, right?
Well, what if the manager and the employee came together, and they said, it’s you and me
versus the problem? They said, what’s the real problem here? Well, the real problem is that the
company is not bringing in enough profit. The real problem is the company is not as profitable
as it could be. Because if the company was more profitable, we wouldn’t have to cut costs so
hard, and the employee could have the raise they’re looking for. So now the manager and the
employee say, okay, you and me, how can we work together and bring in more profit?
David Kuimagi [27:10]
When you do it in your marriage, this is one that like if you have kids, which I do have three, and
you get a car, look at each other before you start driving and go, same team. It’s you and me
versus the problem. So when you approach every problem and every argument with, it’s you
and me versus the problem, you guys are now united on the same front to attack it.
Now, sometimes it takes a little bit because you may feel like they’re the problem or what they’re
doing is the problem. You got to really sit down and look at each other and be like, okay, I want
to find the real problem here. And usually it’s not what you think. Nine times out of 10, it’s an
unspoken expectation. That’s usually what it falls back on, which is why I teach these in this
order, because for our marriage, a lot of it was, even with the lasagna.
Cybersecurity Meets Emotional Intelligence
Host (Melissa) [27:55]
I love that. I think there’s so much wisdom in coming together to resolve conflict because
everybody comes out winning. I want to switch gears on you a little bit. I love the cybersecurity
analogy because I also work in cybersecurity. Now, you lead SOC IR teams managing incident
responses, like you mentioned, across complex environments. How has your work in cyber
helped you identify emotional intelligence? And then kind of the second part to that, how does
this play into your leadership style?
David Kuimagi [28:25]
Oh, my goodness. So I was a very logical individual. I was in the Navy for eight years. They
taught me to be a hacker, and then I started working DOD after that. And computers are logical.
They’re one or they’re zero. There’s no middle, right? This is just how they operate. However,
humans are not.
And so the interesting part, I’m going to just go cyber a little bit, but when you think like a hacker,
the most successful attacks are psychological ones because technology changes, AI changes,
and things evolve fast. What doesn’t change is psychology. The number one factor for people is
curiosity. They’re like, ooh, I want to click that. We click stuff so often because we’re just straight
up curious.
David Kuimagi [29:10]
And so when you learn a lot more of the psychology aspects and you have the more emotional
intelligence, when it comes to assessing how a threat actor is going to act, you can actually kind
of get inside their head. And when you’re a defense person and you’re fighting against that, you
can have a very understandable, predictable, this is how they do it. We call it pattern of life.
So without getting super technical, this is how people tend to act. These are what are called
TTPs, tools, tactics, and procedures that threat actors will use on your environment. From the
opposite side of the house, right? Say I’m in a meeting with a customer. This actually happened.
And they’re really mad because their system’s encrypted and our SOC was supposed to watch
it, right?
David Kuimagi [29:50]
Well, it’s you, me versus the problem. They feel like we’re the problem. We feel like you didn’t
secure your environment like you were told to. They’re the problem. And the real problem is
there’s a threat actor in the system, right? Let’s start with one. Let’s prioritize and execute. And
let’s take care of this threat actor.
Another one, too, is unspoken expectations. When we’re talking with salespeople and they’re
like, oh, well, you’ll do all this for our customers, right? Uh, no. We need to make sure we’re all
on the same page. Sit down and be like, this is what we do. This is what we can do. This is what
we don’t. So that way when the customer comes in, they have an understanding and an
expectation of I know what’s expected of me and what’s expected of you, which goes and leads
into his business, her business, and not your business.
David Kuimagi [30:30]
These three things alone, and there’s many more, but these three things alone, having an
understanding, after I got done with this coaching with my wife a couple years ago, she and I sat
down and we started to apply these to our lives. While I was at work, I actually was shifted. I
used to be a manager of a security operations center incident response team where we dealt
with ransomware. I got moved into a senior more manager director level, and I was managing
multiple teams because I was really good at helping managers see how to work directly with
their employees.
So even though you may be in a highly technical job, learning how to work with people, how
they understand what their needs are, how it helps them understand his business, her business,
and not your business, and how to work with them when you have disagreements, you can
revolutionize any attack vector, stop any threat, and work as a team to meet any patch
management plan.
Leadership Advice for Tech Professionals
Host (Melissa) [31:20]
Oh, I love that. And as a fellow techie, and for leaders that are listening in, in heavy tech
environments, which is, you know, mostly introverted in my experience working with a lot of
these individuals, what advice would you give them and your experience on how they can show
up, not only professionally to do a job, to do a cybersecurity job, but how can they show up
personally?
David Kuimagi [31:45]
So personally and professionally, I don’t feel like those should always have to be different. Now,
I know some people that their personality is not appropriate HR-wise professionally. Let’s just be
real. A lot of these guys are vets. And so I get them because I’m a vet myself. But when you
come into work, you should never feel like you have to put on a front. You should never feel like
you can’t be your authentic self.
One of the things that we teach in our coaching, and I’ve done this coaching for IT
professionals. I’ve done it for entrepreneurs. I’ve done it for couples in network marketing.
Across the board, this is the truth. When you learn how to be authentically you and give your
best self, don’t change a thing about you. In fact, embrace who you are.
David Kuimagi [32:25]
And the skills and talents that you have, just like every superhero, you got to learn how to use
them, and it helps to have a guide along the way. But when you do that and you show up to
work as your authentic self, you give your best to the world. And when you give your best to the
world, whether you’re an employee to your boss or a husband to your wife, or a director to your
entire operations center, when you give your best, they give their best, and they feel safe to do
it.
So I would leave on that note with that. When you have an environment where people feel safe
to be genuinely who they are at their core, and they’re safe to do that, they’ll innovate. They’ll
show up to work early. They’ll give it their best. And they’ll operate in a way that honors who
they are, and your productivity and profit will go through the roof.
Host (Melissa) [33:05]
Yeah, because they’re aligned. They’re aligned, would you say, with the mission. They feel like
they’re part of a team, and they’re pulling and working hard. And so I love that. I think that’s a
great example.
The Lasagna Story Conclusion
Host (Melissa) [33:20]
Now, I’m curious, David. I’m sure everybody else is curious. Did your wife ever find that perfect
lasagna recipe for you?
David Kuimagi [33:30]
No, she didn’t. After a couple of years, she gave up. But 10 years later, she swallowed her pride,
and she made the walk to my mom’s house, and she sat down at the kitchen table with my
mom. She looked across at her and said, I got to know, what’s this recipe that David loves? I’ve
tried everything. I’ve given up. Can you just share with me this amazing recipe that he
apparently loves? Because she loved me. She wanted to make the right thing.
My mom looked at her across the table, shocked and, like, surprised. She shrugged, and she
said, what recipe? I always bought it frozen from the store. True story. And when my wife told
me that, oh, I felt awful. I was like, I am so sorry. Apparently, I like Walmart Stouffer’s lasagna.
That’s what I like, apparently.
Host (Melissa) [34:20]
Oh, my God. That’s hilarious. But it goes to show you, we literally argued over that for over 10
years, 13, 14 years of marriage. And it’s now the funniest part of our story. But that was a
source of conflict, our whole marriage, because we weren’t willing to sit down and talk it through
until we did it together. But now it’s one of the funniest things we have.
Host (Melissa) [34:45]
That is such a great story. I love it.
Final Thoughts & Contact Information
Host (Melissa) [34:50]
David, I want to get any final thoughts or anything we didn’t touch on that you want to leave with
our listeners.
David Kuimagi [35:00]
The biggest thing is I would say the world needs who you are and the best version of it. When
you learn to give that, whether you’re a leader, a husband, a stay-at-home mom, an
entrepreneur, or a network marketer, the world needs your message and your voice. You are
worth it.
Host (Melissa) [35:20]
I love that. That’s fantastic. You’ve been a perfect blend of humor, vulnerability, real leadership.
And it’s rare for me that I get to talk to somebody in cybersecurity. So it’s been a blessing to talk
to you today. And I’m sure the listeners are going to feel the same way.
What’s the best way for our listeners to connect with you? Is it an email? Is it social media?
Share how they can connect with you.
David Kuimagi [35:45]
Absolutely. My name is pretty unique. It’s David Kiwi Magi, but everyone calls me Kiwi in my
friend circle. You can follow us on social media. If you search my name, I am the only one on
the planet with my name. My wife is Alexis, same last name. So you can follow us on Facebook,
Instagram, YouTube. We share a lot of our videos there.
So if you just want more advice, more encouragement, hear some fun stories, we do lots of
shenanigans. You can follow us there. If you’re actually interested in getting a little bit more from
us being part of our coaching programs, check us out at DavidAndAlexisKiwi.org.
Host (Melissa) [36:20]
Thank you so much for talking to us. You’ve given us a new way to look at lasagna and incident
response. That’s the Executive Connect podcast.

Key Takeaways:
✓ Most arguments stem from unspoken expectations
✓ Focus only on what’s in your circle of influence
✓ Shift mindset from “You vs. Me” to “Us vs. The Problem”
✓ Authenticity in leadership drives team performance
✓ Communication frameworks that work in crisis management

Perfect for: Tech leaders, cybersecurity professionals, entrepreneurs, married couples, and
anyone seeking practical emotional intelligence strategies.
Connect with David & Alexis Kiwi:
🌐 Website: DavidAndAlexisKiwi.org
📱 Social: @DavidKiwimagi (Facebook, Instagram, YouTube)
💼 Use code EXECUTIVE1 for $500 off their 6-week coaching program
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#CommunicationSkills #LeadershipDevelopment #TechLeaders #IncidentResponse
#RelationshipGoals #UnspokenExpectations #Podcast2025