In this episode of Executive Connect, host Melissa Aarskaug sits down with Betsy Pepine, bestselling author of Breaking Boxes, founder of Pepine Realty, and creator of Pepine Gives. Betsy shares how she left a secure healthcare career, challenged family expectations, built a nationally recognized real estate company, and learned that real success is not just about status. It is about alignment, courage, culture, and impact. She opens up about the boxes people live in, why fear keeps people there, how coaching changed her trajectory, and what it takes to build a business that gives back. If you have ever felt successful on paper but stuck in real life, this episode will help you think more clearly about what comes next.

Chapters:

(0:01) Why people stay in boxes
(1:27) Choosing passion over expectation
(3:04) The boxes that shape identity
(6:11) The lesson that reshaped her company
(14:49) Scaling with intention and culture
(22:34) Building business around real impact
(32:23) When success stops feeling fulfilling
(36:50) The power of what’s next

Betsy

(0:00) We forget that boxes are supposed to be temporary and they’re supposed to be dismantled and taken to the curb for the garbage pickup folks when they no longer serve us, right? (0:09) But we choose, consciously or unconsciously, to stay in them because they are serving us in some way.

Melissa

(0:16) They are keeping us safe. (0:18) Some people build houses and some people build businesses. (0:23) And then there’s Betsy Papine who builds empires, breaks boxes, and transforms lives across the way.

(0:32) From Wall Street Journal’s recognition to Inc. (0:36) 5000 lists, Betsy has turned real estate into both a high-performance business and platform for impact. (0:44) But what really makes her story special isn’t just success, but it’s the way she redefines transformation, not just in business, but how people live, work, and give back.

(0:56) Today, we’re diving into the modalities of transformation. (0:59) And trust me, you’ll want to take notes. (1:02) Welcome, Betsy.

Betsy

(1:04) So happy to be here, Melissa. (1:05) Thank you for having me.

Melissa

(1:07) Now, you’re a bestselling author, entrepreneur, and founder of Papine Realty, one of the fastest growing private equity companies in the country. (1:17) But before we get into that, I love to start with what you consider your biggest personal transformation today.

Betsy

(1:27) Probably the jump into real estate. (1:30) Moving from a career that was in healthcare, that was certainly not my passion, but it was definitely something that checked the family of origin box. (1:41) And when I decided to pivot into a different career, because it’s what my true passion was, and choosing myself over what others were expecting of me, probably that was the biggest impetus to a transformation that I’ve had.

Melissa

(1:56) I love it. (1:56) Now, was there a defining challenge or failure, or was it just plain shift that became the foundation for your success story?

Betsy

(2:06) Oh, no, it was a transformation. (2:11) It took probably five years to make that pivot and then build what I had a vision of building. (2:20) So it was not an overnight thing at all.

(2:24) It may look like that from the outside, but it certainly wasn’t. (2:26) I mean, it took me a couple of years to even have the courage to pivot because I was leaving a very secure industry, jumping into a very insecure industry and a single mom with two really young girls at the time. (2:39) So that took a while.

(2:41) And then even when I jumped in, I didn’t have a clear vision of what I wanted out of the industry. (2:47) And it was only after I got myself a coach did I really lay out a plan to kind of build the enterprise that I have today.

Melissa

(2:58) I love it. (2:59) I want to talk a little bit about your book, Breaking Boxes, which I love it. (3:03) It’s such a catchy title.

(3:04) Talk to me a little bit about what boxes have you personally had to break through and how did this reshape your life and your beliefs and leadership?

Betsy

(3:15) Oh, wow. (3:15) So I feel like boxes have followed me all throughout my life. (3:20) And I had reached a point in my mid forties when I just felt very discontent with my life.

(3:28) And when I went through a long journey of exploration as to what my source of discontentment was, it all revolved around these, I call them metaphorical boxes that I felt confined by. (3:40) These are expectations, opinions, beliefs that others, society, institutions, religions, families, ourselves place on us. (3:51) And they may not serve us or they may serve us in one period of life, but no longer serve us.

(3:58) Yet we choose consciously or unconsciously to stay in those boxes. (4:02) And I mean, there’s so many, but it’s hard to pick, honestly, which ones to talk about. (4:08) But for me, the family of origin box was a very strong box that I felt confined by.

(4:13) I think a lot of people do having spoken to so many after having published the book, whether it’s what profession you go into, what partner you choose, what religion you choose, if any, to practice. (4:26) I mean, there’s just so many things that are insidious in the family unit you grow up in. (4:32) So that probably was the most impactful one for me.

(4:36) But gender was a huge one, still is. (4:39) I mean, I don’t think we ever arrive where it’s a journey. (4:45) And gender for sure, being female in this country, in this time, is definitely a box that continually I brush up against.

(4:54) Religion was one. (4:56) I was raised Catholic and really grappled as an adult, not personally believing in all of the things that I was taught to believe when I was younger, but I wanted to still practice in that denomination, but felt a little inauthentic because I didn’t believe everything Catholics are supposed to believe. (5:16) So I went through that journey and finding something that’s compatible with my belief system and theirs.

(5:21) The privilege box, that’s one a lot of people don’t talk about. (5:25) I really struggled even writing the book because I felt, I really struggled with it because I know so many people have so much less than me. (5:38) And here I am writing a book about my discontentment.

(5:44) And so I didn’t feel like I had the right to for a long time. (5:49) And then I thought, well, yes, there are people who are more disadvantaged than me, but there are so many, these are universal struggles. (5:58) And if somebody could learn something from my own struggles, then it will have been worth the effort to write the book.

(6:03) So the privilege box is a big one. (6:05) It’s one that I think a lot of people don’t address. (6:08) So those are just some of the ones that I’ve come across.

(6:11) And in business, I put my own company in a box at the very beginning when I first started Pippin Realty. (6:17) My only real reference point was that the pharmaceutical industry and working for big pharma. (6:24) And in that era, which was the early 1990s, you traded your time for a paycheck.

(6:32) And it was very transactional and everyone, it was, that was the expectation and everyone understood the rules. (6:39) And then when I started my real estate brokerage, I had one of my first hires was a kind of a second hand woman who ran my office. (6:49) And she had worked with me in a prior life and I brought her in and we were friends.

(6:55) And then after about a year and a half, she came to me and said she was quitting and she was actually going to a big competitor of mine. (7:04) And I was crushed. (7:05) And I said, tell me, what could I have done to have made you make a different decision?

(7:11) And she said, Betsy, she said, there’s no sense of family here. (7:15) There’s no room for me to advance in your organization. (7:19) And there’s no opportunities to give back.

(7:21) And at the time I was, I was a single mom working out of my house with five or six agents working with me in spare bedrooms. (7:29) And she was correct. (7:31) There was no sense of family.

(7:31) There was no, there was no path for advancement for her. (7:34) She was our only employee and we didn’t volunteer. (7:37) And, and that was, I’ve always volunteered my whole life.

(7:40) I’ve been active in giving back, but I’d always thought you go home to your family, you go home to volunteer. (7:47) I never saw a model where, wait a minute, you, you do this in your work life too. (7:53) And you could meld the two together.

(7:54) And she was telling me that’s what she wanted. (7:57) And so I really had to redefine what a company was. (8:01) And, and she was telling me they want a sense of family.

(8:04) They want a sense of purpose outside of what we do is help people buy and sell houses. (8:09) And that was the best thing, you know, in hindsight, the most traumatic things are tend to be the ones that are most eyeopening and, and meaningful became one of the best lessons for me. (8:21) And it redefined how I move forward in my company.

Melissa

(8:23) I love it. (8:24) And there’s so much truth in that. (8:25) I think about as you’re talking, I’ve kind of been through all of that.

(8:29) The boxes we either set because of how we were raised also Catholic, raised Catholic, or our belief. (8:36) You know, I had some around when I could get married, when to prioritize my career. (8:41) And if so, who was I marrying?

(8:43) And, you know, do I buy a house first as a, you know, an independent career woman, or do I wait until I get married and then buy one as a husband and a wife? (8:51) So I’m curious, where do you think people get trapped? (8:55) Is it just in the fear?

(8:57) Is it in the comfort of their job? (8:59) Or is it comparison to others? (9:03) Ready to lead smarter and invest wiser?

(9:07) On the Executive Connect podcast, we unpack executive strategies for wealth and influence. (9:14) Hit the subscribe button now. (9:16) Don’t just watch act.

Betsy

(9:18) I think, I mean, I don’t, I can’t speak for everybody for me. (9:21) And I think people that I’ve spoken with, you know, and I, and I use the metaphor boxes because I am in real estate and I see boxes every day. (9:29) We use them to transport our valuable possessions to take them from one place to another.

(9:36) We forget that boxes are supposed to be temporary and they’re supposed to be dismantled and taken to the curb for the garbage pickup folks when they no longer serve us, but we choose consciously or unconsciously to stay in them because they, they are serving us in some way. (9:54) They are keeping us safe. (9:57) We know what to expect.

(9:58) You know, I stayed in the family of origin box for so long because that’s what was expected of me. (10:04) That’s where I knew if I, if I deviated from healthcare, my, my currency in my family of origin would go down. (10:14) My value down.

(10:16) I knew that probably subconsciously. (10:19) So it was safe for me because I valued my family’s opinion of me more than choosing what I really wanted to stay in that box. (10:28) And so I think a lot of times it’s, it’s the fear of, of rejection of social status.

(10:35) Sometimes it’s fear of financial harm because a lot of times when you’re, you’re going to, you want to change careers. (10:42) That’s going to take it. (10:43) You’re going to take a financial hit and there’s a fear of financial insecurity.

(10:47) Ego gets in the way, you know, fear of losing that that your ego and what, what your, you think your ego can bear. (10:55) So it’s, it’s generally a fear of loss of some sort, loss of status, loss of money, loss of loss of your social network. (11:02) I mean, anytime you make a move, I think of it, it’s like a chess game, right?

(11:08) And chess match and you’ve moved a piece on the board, the whole board’s changed. (11:12) And so everyone around you is going to look at that and have their own reaction to it. (11:17) And so I always tell people, know that ahead of time, you are going to lose some people in your social network.

(11:25) So shore up and, and be forward focused and look for people who will enhance your life in your future version of yourself. (11:34) There are people out there wanting to do that and are already there for you. (11:37) Seek out those people to support you, knowing you’re going to lose some people that no longer, great people, but just no longer probably on your, on your, on the same path as you.

(11:50) That’s something I really struggled with. (11:52) I used to think any relationship that ended was failure. (11:56) And I read a great book, which the title will come to me, I’m sure, but it, it was all about relationships are meant, you know, to serve us, to learn from they’re not, most relationships are not meant to be a lifetime.

(12:12) And so yes, it ended, but it served both parties well, and we can move on. (12:18) It’s not what that doesn’t mean it failed. (12:20) It served its purpose.

Melissa

(12:23) I love that you said that because I think there’s so much truth in the perceived boxes. (12:28) I don’t think I knew I had all these boxes until somebody else said, why, why do you think about it that way? (12:35) Or why are you waiting until you’re 30 to do this?

(12:39) Or, you know, why are you waiting to, you know, do that? (12:42) And so I think sometimes these boxes are invisible until, like you said, some of these relationships come into our life, maybe for a season, a year, a couple of years, but they serve the purpose, open our eyes a bit and help us work through some of those boxes. (13:02) Now, do you think it translates to the way that you lead your companies today?

Betsy

(13:08) For sure. (13:09) I feel like I’m much more open-minded, empathetic. (13:14) I mean, I still have to catch myself.

(13:15) I still feel like, especially in interviews, I make, I can feel myself making assumptions that I have no business making, you know, but at least I’m, I’m so aware of it now, but I definitely think I’m more open and flexible with people and see everything as a shade of gray. (13:35) And so I kind of grew up in a house that was black and white. (13:37) And the older I get, I realized it’s really, everything is just a spectrum and a shade of gray.

(13:44) And there’s really, I mean, outside of the major, you know, major things that are obviously right or wrong. (13:51) It’s just, everyone’s basically trying to do their best, survive in this world. (13:55) And, um, you have to give grace.

(13:57) So I feel like I’m much, just much more accepting than I used to be through this.

Melissa

(14:04) I love that. (14:04) I think learning when you’re doing it is so spot on and then adjusting that lens to ask better questions, to get the clarity before making the assumption. (14:16) And I think it’s kind of like a muscle.

(14:17) I would say, sometimes we got to even realize that we’re having those biases either because we have different experiences or we don’t have the experiences. (14:26) So I love that you said that. (14:27) I want to talk a little bit about your entrepreneurial path.

(14:31) Papine Realty has earned national recognition from Inc. (14:35) 5000 Wall Street Journal. (14:37) That’s an extraordinary, wow, feat.

(14:41) Talk to me a little bit about what’s the secret sauce behind scaling a business up to that level?

Betsy

(14:49) Well, one, you have to have intention. (14:50) You know, I didn’t, when I, when that woman left me, that’s when I got the coach and, um, he was funny coach, Mike, best coach I’ve ever had, had him for 10 years. (15:00) And he, he’s like, Betsy, you got to go big or go home.

(15:03) And I said, well, I’m already home. (15:04) Let’s go big because I was working out of my house. (15:07) And so he helped me lay out a plan.

(15:10) Like I had never really thought, you know, what do I, what does this company want to look like in three years, five years, 10 years? (15:16) And so we put it down on paper and then work backwards, which was great. (15:20) I wish, and I would recommend anybody in any area of their life, get a coach, get, get a mentor or two really.

(15:29) And because there’s so many people that are there to help you and they’ve been there. (15:32) So why not, why not capitalize on their knowledge and experience? (15:37) So that was probably the biggest thing for me to get to where I am today is having that coach who has been there, done that helped other people.

(15:45) And then the other thing I did was I looked at the companies that were already on those lists, like the ones that were really known for their culture. (15:58) Cause I, I, I sensed early on that if everybody’s happy in your company, it just, everything goes more smoothly. (16:05) Right.

(16:06) And so I just, I recognize that culture is going to be, that’s not, that’s not in my skillset. (16:11) It’s not something I naturally think, Oh, let’s like team building and culture building. (16:16) That’s not, that’s not a unique ability of mine.

(16:19) So it’s something I have to very intentionally focus on, but I recognize that it was going to be very important to building a company. (16:27) And so I looked at the companies at that, at that time, I felt like we’re doing really wonderful jobs with their culture. (16:34) And I tried to emulate that.

(16:36) You know, I took I think every state has this, but they have, you know, like Florida has the best companies to work for. (16:43) So I looked at their application. (16:46) I wanted to see what are they, you know, what are they rating organizations on?

(16:51) And I made that my blueprint and five years later we got on that list. (16:56) And so, so I mean, I guess the point is it’s, it’s very intentional, like look at who’s, who’s doing what you want to, where you want to be, look what they’re doing and emulate that. (17:06) That’s how I did it.

Melissa

(17:08) I love it. (17:09) That’s such great advice. (17:10) Now talk to me a little bit about the biggest leadership lessons you’ve learned from your mentors like Barbara Cochran and Dave Ramsey.

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Betsy

(17:57) So Barbara, she is just so inspiring because, so when I was in pharma in the nineties, there was a, a very clear glass ceiling for professional women. (18:09) I didn’t know anybody over 65 in the pharma company. (18:12) And I worked for large pharmaceutical companies in a higher position.

(18:16) Barbara is in her mid seventies and thriving. (18:19) And she, she made her first fortune in real estate, got divorced. (18:25) Like I did, had to rebuild her company again, rebuilt it to being one of the largest in the New York city.

(18:31) When she sold it, she was around 60, but she knew she wanted to stay relevant. (18:37) And so she rebranded herself because at the time she was only known for real estate. (18:41) Then she strategically rebranded herself and got herself on Shark Tank and then became a business woman and, and has created a whole new revenue stream for herself.

(18:55) And so watching that is been so inspiring to me. (19:00) And that’s actually one of the reasons I got into real estate was I realized, and there are, there are awesome agents in my county that are in their mid to late eighties, still practicing real estate. (19:11) It’s, it’s a profession that to me rewards age.

(19:15) And also honestly is rewards gender because I don’t know why, but some customers will tell us, I mean, I’ve been in real estate for 20 years now, and it is my experience that some customers and they will, they’ll say, I only want to work with a female agent. (19:32) I never hear, I only want to work with a male agent. (19:35) You know, you don’t hear that.

(19:37) So it rewards our gender. (19:39) So anyway, but Barbara was just a role model for me. (19:43) And so having that inspiration, I always like to have two types of mentors.

(19:47) One, like a Barbara who’s so far ahead of me. (19:49) And then another mentor who’s, who’s just maybe a couple of years ahead of me. (19:53) And so Barbara is my kind of far off mentor.

(19:56) Dave Ramsey. (19:57) You know, it’s funny because I’ve, I had followed Dave Ramsey long before I got into real estate because I grew up in a debt-free home. (20:04) That was what was modeled for me.

(20:06) And I’m so blessed by that. (20:07) And he practices that. (20:09) And so when I started Pippin Realty, I wanted my agents to be debt-free and I started teaching them his course that’s called Financial Peace to lead a debt-free life.

(20:20) And probably one of the, probably the proudest thing that I am, the thing I’m most proud of, of everything I’ve done in my professional life is creating debt-free agents. (20:33) Because I know I have, I have changed their family tree. (20:36) There are agents now that, that work with me that have multiple homes.

(20:40) They, they’re out of debt. (20:42) I mean, they have, their, their lives have totally changed because of the learnings that they have gotten from our company. (20:49) So that’s what Dave Ramsey has given me.

Melissa

(20:52) Now, do you have any habits or systems that help you grow from startup to national success?

Betsy

(21:00) About that. (21:00) I mean, I have daily habits and we have systems within our company. (21:05) I think probably the, the biggest thing for me is I always want to be the dumbest one in the room.

(21:14) And so I constantly seek out people. (21:17) Like, so when I started, you know, I don’t, I no longer coach with the coach I had because at some point I think you outgrow the coach. (21:26) And so now I’m in a coaching group that’s, that’s international.

(21:30) And I fly to Chicago four times a year and I get coaching with the top, not real estate, the top business people that in the United States and elsewhere. (21:41) And so I constantly try to, and it’s very intimidating. (21:45) You know, I truly am probably the dumbest one in the room, but I constantly, one of my daily habits is, and I ask myself this and I check it off every night.

(21:54) Did I make myself uncomfortable today? (21:57) I don’t grow if I’m not uncomfortable. (21:59) And so I constantly seek out experiences and environments that make me uncomfortable.

Melissa

(22:05) I love that. (22:06) There’s so much truth in that. (22:08) Even today, I think about how fast our world is changing.

(22:12) Our lives are changing and how much technology is changing. (22:15) And I don’t know about you, but it seems like this year is blown by and things are moving so much faster and we have less and less control of things. (22:24) So being comfortable with change and is, is really a key to success.

(22:29) I would say it’s one of my favorite things I practice as well. (22:33) I love that you said that. (22:34) Talk to me a little bit about Pepin Gives.

(22:37) You found a Pepin Gives, a nonprofit supporting at-risk family. (22:44) That’s super, like, first of all, amazing. (22:47) Second of all, what inspires you to create this foundation?

Betsy

(22:52) So when I was in grad school, getting an MBA, one of the classes, incredibly, was I was in Philly, Philadelphia, and you could go in to West Philadelphia and gut out row homes and rebuild them using mainly donated supplies and labor and then sell these homes at cost, which was nominal because most things were donated to at-risk families. (23:19) So I got to see firsthand what a house does for a family’s trajectory. (23:26) It’s not just the four walls, a ceiling, and a floor.

(23:29) And that really impacted me. (23:31) I didn’t understand it until I saw it firsthand. (23:35) So then when I got into real estate and I wanted to, when the woman left and she wanted, she really wanted this, this synergistic relationship between volunteering and work, I said, okay, how can I create that in my company?

(23:50) And it was very important to me to give back in the area in which we serve. (23:55) And so I wanted to serve a population that needed our services, but would never be able to afford them through the front door. (24:02) And so we partnered with Habitat for Humanity and we have several events a year and we fundraise, and then we help build houses for at-risk families, which is becoming increasingly, I mean, it was a problem before, but it’s really, with the housing prices and inflation, it’s really becoming difficult for even people who have a generous income to afford a home today.

(24:27) So it’s becoming a crisis in our country.

Melissa

(24:30) Oh, we can have a whole long podcast on that. (24:34) I absolutely agree with that one. (24:36) We’re going to table that for our next podcast, but talk to me a little bit about what social impact looks like into a for-profit business.

(24:50) What do you mean? (24:50) How do you integrate them? (24:51) What does it look like to integrate social impact into a for-profit?

(24:56) Now, does it affect the way your team sees their work? (25:00) Does it?

Betsy

(25:01) Yeah. (25:01) I mean, so first of all, we have a nonprofit. (25:03) There are two separate companies.

(25:05) We have a nonprofit and we have the for-profit, but I think it definitely gives more meaning. (25:11) Like it shows the agents the impact they’re having on a family’s life. (25:17) It’s not a sale of a home.

(25:20) You are truly impacting their future and their family tree. (25:24) So I think it opens up their eyes and provides them an opportunity that they may not normally have. (25:33) And that’s just very important to me.

(25:34) And it’s also very important to me to give back to the community that’s been so generous to us. (25:39) So I just feel like it’s the right thing to do. (25:44) I mean, it’s all voluntary.

(25:46) So staff, they don’t have to take off to volunteer. (25:51) If it’s during working hours, they’re still going to get paid and then go volunteer and build the house. (25:57) Agents, they’re not salaried, but I just feel like it’s my obligation to create the opportunity.

(26:05) And if they want to take it, it’s there for them. (26:08) And then we also invite our clients. (26:10) We open it up for the community.

(26:12) Anybody can join us in building the homes.

Melissa

(26:14) I love that. (26:15) That’s fantastic. (26:17) Talk to me a little bit about the modalities of transformation.

(26:21) If you had to define the modalities, what would they look like?

Betsy

(26:24) For me, it was always get yourself in a bigger and bigger room. (26:30) That’s definitely something that I have to consciously do and consciously ask myself, okay, have I outgrown this space? (26:37) Do I need to find a new group?

(26:40) So that’s probably the biggest modality for me. (26:44) And also having a coach, it’s just instrumental. (26:47) I resisted it for a while.

(26:49) I don’t know why. (26:51) I think I thought I could do it on my own, but it’s just like, why wouldn’t you want to accelerate your growth curve, right? (26:58) So I think that, and then I read incessantly.

(27:02) I think that’s definitely an overlooked activity in this day and age, but there’s so much to be learned from books. (27:11) And so those are probably the three things that I have done to transform my life and my business life.

Melissa

(27:19) And I love that because I think a lot of times people look at, like when I was younger in management roles, I felt like I didn’t know everything. (27:29) I don’t know if you felt that in your roles. (27:30) Like I didn’t know how to do everything and be an expert at all the things with the companies I worked for.

(27:35) But I think the interesting thing about having coaches is we don’t often, back to the boxes, we don’t often realize a lot of the areas that we need to work on until it either becomes a glaring red flag or somebody brings it to our attention or a coach unpacks it for us. (27:55) And it’s funny, I’ve had a similar experience to coaching and I’ve often been taught my whole life to have coaches. (28:03) So my parents put that on us even at a young age of high school, being high schoolers.

(28:09) So I’ve come up having coaches in everything from career to personal, to sports, to financial coaches. (28:19) And it’s amazing. (28:20) It changes the playing field, right?

(28:23) Because you’re talking to people that know more about a certain subject than you, so you can quickly scale and get better with their support. (28:32) So I love that you bring that up because I think a lot of times, at least I’ve heard from people that they either can’t afford a coach or they don’t need it, or they’re going to read a book and learn about it. (28:42) And I feel like coaching has been some of the best money I’ve ever spent in my life.

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Betsy

(29:28) Yeah, hands down. (29:30) I agree. (29:31) The other thing you just brought up that’s helped me, you said coaches kind of identify your blind spots and things like that.

(29:38) But the mindset of who, not how, and understanding that everyone has unique abilities. (29:47) Don’t fight what you’re not good at. (29:50) Hire that out.

(29:52) Source that out. (29:53) Focus on what you’re good at, naturally good at, and naturally like. (29:57) And there are other people who can do what you hate to do, and they can do it better than you, and they enjoy doing it and be okay with that.

(30:05) That took me a long time, but you’re not going to be able to scale if you’re not going to be able to let go. (30:10) And so just let it constantly. (30:12) And that’s another thing I track daily.

(30:14) What did I let go today? (30:15) What did I give to somebody else? (30:17) That’s their unique ability, not mine.

(30:21) But that being able to do that and see that is, I think, invaluable to scaling and growing.

Melissa

(30:28) Yeah, I love that. (30:29) Talk to me a little bit about personal growth versus professional success. (30:36) Do you see that there’s a relationship between personal growth and professional success, or are they kind of two completely separate things?

Betsy

(30:45) I think they can be separate, and then I think they can also have some synergies. (30:50) I’m thinking of my twin sister. (30:52) I have an identical twin sister, and she was a physician by training because that’s what she did in our family.

(31:01) But then she chose to be a stay-at-home mom, so she’s not working. (31:10) She hasn’t worked in 25 years, but she’s very into personal growth. (31:16) So I think you can be and have success in personal growth and not have it flow over to a business proposition.

(31:26) I don’t meet a lot of people who I see have success professionally that haven’t worked on themselves. (31:34) You know, I think there are some. (31:37) There are some, I have to say, and you question how they got there.

(31:41) But for the most part, I think there’s a correlation because you are who you are. (31:46) And so if you’re interested in improving yourself, that carries over into your brand and into your companies. (31:53) So I think there’s usually a direct correlation between the extent to which you want to grow personally and then professionally.

Melissa

(32:02) It’s been coming up a lot in dialogue lately. (32:04) I hear, you know, you mentioned women. (32:06) A lot of women in senior executive roles are very successful in their careers, but they feel like something’s lacking.

(32:14) They don’t feel like they’re growing personally, but they’re still experiencing a lot of professional success. (32:21) I just read something. (32:22) It was probably last month where this year in 2025, about 220,000 executive women in an executive role have stepped down from their, their, their job, or whether it was because of a merger or they started a business or whatever it is.

(32:41) And so I’m trying to kind of the correlation between, okay, so we have a bunch of women staying in roles that they don’t want to do yet. (32:48) They kind of feel like they’re stuck, but they’re still very inspired to do things. (32:53) So how do we kind of balance that personal growth?

(32:57) We’re developing ourselves personally. (33:00) We’re, you know, achieving what we consider success, but also checking those professional milestones.

Betsy

(33:06) I think some of us, and I’m including myself in it, get caught up in what society deems as successful. (33:16) And so I think sometimes we chase something and then we get it and we realize, wait a minute, this is, this didn’t bring me what I thought it was going to bring me. (33:27) And so I, perhaps some of those women say, I need to pivot because this is not, even though I’m successful professionally, I don’t have the happiness that I thought this was going to bring me.

(33:40) And pivoting to careers that maybe externally by society’s standards isn’t considered as prominent or prestigious, but fulfills them in other ways and gives them a better quality of life or fulfills these needs that their professional careers don’t. (34:02) You know, I feel like I struggled with that. (34:03) You know, I was going after all these awards and then it’s like, but I wasn’t happy, you know, and I really wasn’t.

(34:12) I mean, I was, it didn’t bring me what I thought I was looking for.

Melissa

(34:16) Yeah, I agree. (34:17) I think we want kind of all, you know, we want to move up the ladder, but we want to see to the left and the right and down and backwards. (34:24) And we want to see all the way around and, you know, have our cake and eat it too.

(34:30) Right. (34:30) And so for someone who’s feeling stuck in their career or their finances, or even in their personal relationships, what would you tell them or what would you leave them with?

Betsy

(34:42) You know, I think sometimes it can get overwhelming and I would suggest to anybody, figure out what is the most, the biggest pain point, you know, what is causing you the most angst and then seek out help with that. (34:57) Get a the most angst. (35:06) And then sometimes people just know they’re unhappy, but they don’t know why they’re unhappy.

(35:10) And for those folks, you know, what I did and still do is kind of track how things, people, environments, situations make me feel, because your body’s going to tell you before your mind can. (35:23) And so there’s a great app called How We Feel. (35:26) It’s a free app.

(35:27) It checks in with you as many times as you want during the day. (35:30) And you just keep a log and you can start seeing trends and patterns of what people, environment, situations make you feel better and which ones make you feel worse if you don’t know what’s causing you the angst. (35:43) So that’s where I would, that’s what I would suggest to start.

Melissa

(35:45) I love that. (35:46) And I think a lot of times defining what, what it looked like, just forgetting everything. (35:53) And what does that perfect life look like?

(35:55) Is it like for me, sometimes it’s just sitting with my husband in the morning where everybody wakes up having a cup of coffee and just starting my day without the hitting the ground running. (36:06) And so that’s how I, something as simple as that is how I define my success, getting eight hours of sleep. (36:12) And so it could be something as simple as that, or it could be a dollar amount or, but I think really defining what is going to make you the happiness.

(36:20) And like you said, at the beginning, define what that is and work backwards and really put some things to paper. (36:27) I love that. (36:28) I want to get, you know, your story embodies so much about we, what we talk about so often on the show, that leadership is transformation.

(36:39) It’s not just an achievement, it’s constantly changing. (36:42) And so I want to get kind of any final thoughts or anything we didn’t touch on today that you want to leave with our listeners before we close up.

Betsy

(36:50) You know, my favorite word is next. (36:53) And, and we have, we have a quote wall in our, in our office and, and that’s, everyone gets to submit their favorite quote. (36:59) So that’s my, that’s my phrase.

(37:01) And for me, it means I’m always looking for in any situation. (37:06) The first thing I say is what can I learn from this? (37:09) And so I, anything, anything untoward, anything that I don’t, well, I wouldn’t have chosen to be in my life, but it’s in my life.

(37:16) I immediately say, great, this is happening for me. (37:20) What can I learn from it? (37:22) And then next, like, let’s move on.

(37:25) So you don’t let your, your past experiences drag you down and, and taint your future. (37:31) So take the learning, take the beauty from it and move on.

Melissa

(37:35) I love that. (37:36) And I have this daily calendar and today my calendar says I can harness anxiety, worry, or negative emotions to create a positive change. (37:45) So addressing it, leaning into it, but don’t put all your emotion, all your energy, all your time in the worry and stress.

(37:52) So I thought that was funny today. (37:55) I want to, for anyone listening who wants to learn more about your book, your company or Pepin Gives, where can they find you and connect with you?

Betsy

(38:04) Yeah. (38:04) So it’s, I’m on all the social channels with my name at Betsy Pepin. (38:09) I’ve got a website, BetsyPepin.com.

(38:12) There’s a free, a workbook on that site as well as you can purchase the book if you want. (38:17) It’s also on Amazon and all the major online book retailers. (38:20) And then I’m on, the only, the only platform that I’m not Betsy Pepin on is TikTok where I’m Gainesville Realtor.

Melissa

(38:28) I love it. (38:29) Thank you so much for being here with us today, Betsy, and sharing your journey with our listeners. (38:36) That’s the Executive Connect Podcast.